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  1. #71
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post

    As for fresh water, I think that when something is both a necessity and exhaustible, it should be never be in the hands of a private profit seeking enterprise.
    Putting it in the hands of a profit-seeking enterprise is the best way to conserve it.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #72
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Putting it in the hands of a profit-seeking enterprise is the best way to conserve it.
    And how is that?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  3. #73
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    And how is that?
    Because then the commodity is no longer at the mercy of the whims of people, but controlled by the law of supply and demand.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #74
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Because then the commodity is no longer at the mercy of the whims of people, but controlled by the law of supply and demand.
    The supplying and demanding is done by people. It's always at the whim of the people. All it takes is ignorance and/or denial for people to deplete the resource irreversibly through supply and demand.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  5. #75
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    The supplying and demanding is done by people. It's always at the whim of the people. All it takes is ignorance and/or denial for people to deplete the resource irreversibly through supply and demand.
    No doubt. It's not a perfect system, it's just better at delivering the goods.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #76
    jump sleuthiness's Avatar
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    Lofty dreams of a world simple and pure, Poriferan.

    thinking of you

  7. #77

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    I always wonder how uber capitalists like this would do in a death match with the right to lifers, then again a lot of those right to lifers dont care much about the babies the day and hour after they leave the wombs of their mothers.

  8. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Putting it in the hands of a profit-seeking enterprise is the best way to conserve it.
    Look, its alright talking shit, especially highly ideological shit, but dont expect anyone to believe it without evidence.

    Capitalist maxims like that are for kindergartens, they make about as much sense as all the old socialist maxims about the state whithering away after it'd been transformed into a one party dictatorship.

    And the same delusional crap follows on the heels of ALL evidence to the contrary, "they didnt go far enough", "the idea is perfect but people mess it up" etc. etc.

    I call bullshit on all of it.

  9. #79
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    If you have a pond on your land, then you own the water in it as a natural resource - since the water is a resource that came from nature. It's ephemeral quality makes no difference here. Since water is composed of molecules that are not ephemeral, you could extend your argument to anything and claim that nobody can own a natural resource.
    I think that is exactly the question worth asking.

    Although there is a range of practicality from the attempt to own sunlight or wind to owning coal. There could a greater problem attempting to own sunlight vs. coal, and water exists somewhere inbetween the two in terms of its ephemeral quality. Where to draw the line?

    I think the deeper question is the second one - whether the right to own property is valued over the right to exist. Does one individual/corporation have the right to own a resource and withhold it from another individual even at risk of their life? When water is owned on large-scale, corporate level, these two rights will certainly come into conflict. Which one does society value more? My underlying problem with capitalism is that it seems to value the right of property over the right to exist. From my understanding this implies the assumption that might makes right because that is how a claim to material is made and maintained. This is expressed in society through money as the symbol of power. While the individual freedoms associated with capitalism can provide meaningful quality of life in some contexts, this foundation of might makes right is at odds with the concepts of democracy. There are underlying tensions in our society as a result. One attempt to resolve this is to call the dollar freedom of speech. The dollar rather than the individual becomes the basis for democracy. This places property (the dollar) as fundamentally more important than the individual. This is dehumanization, and inhumane.

    What do you think? Do you agree, or is there an argument that can be made to show that capitalism as a philosophy values the individual over property/power?
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  10. #80
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Look, its alright talking shit, especially highly ideological shit, but dont expect anyone to believe it without evidence.

    Capitalist maxims like that are for kindergartens, they make about as much sense as all the old socialist maxims about the state whithering away after it'd been transformed into a one party dictatorship.

    And the same delusional crap follows on the heels of ALL evidence to the contrary, "they didnt go far enough", "the idea is perfect but people mess it up" etc. etc.

    I call bullshit on all of it.
    I call bullshit on your calling bullshit.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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