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  1. #51
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Ok. What is so controversial about what he is stating? He's a CEO. He stated his philosophy of his job is to be profitable. That makes sense. Water should have a value so people know that it isn't a infinite resource. Makes sense.

    The only point of contention is how that is put into effect. Basically, who controls that supply. I didn't hear him say he wants exclusive control of it and if he is attempting this via political ways I would have some issues. I don't feel any company should have exclusive rights to anything (hello monopoly). If they did the market and people cannot have fair prices for supply and demand. That is the check and balance of capitalism (in its pure form).

    But otherwise, everyone is extrapolating and even the video title is manipulative in trying to illicit outrage and defensive reactionism.

    People need to stop feeding into that trap.
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  2. #52
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    This is asking for revolt. This is when people are pushed too far with nothing to lose.

    Edit: These are the arguments that make me start to think that Capitalism is evil at its core. It is dehumanizing and denies all human rights.
    Clean, fresh water is a product of human labor. Catch rainwater if you want, and save up your snow from the winter.

    Since producing clean, fresh water requires human labor, you are literally recommending the dehumanizing alternative of slavery - the idea that one person has the right to the products of another.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #53
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    Ok. What is so controversial about what he is stating? He's a CEO. He stated his philosophy of his job is to be profitable. That makes sense. Water should have a value so people know that it isn't a infinite resource. Makes sense.

    The only point of contention is how that is put into effect. Basically, who controls that supply. I didn't hear him say he wants exclusive control of it and if he is attempting this via political ways I would have some issues. I don't feel any company should have exclusive rights to anything (hello monopoly). If they did the market and people cannot have fair prices for supply and demand. That is the check and balance of capitalism (in its pure form).

    But otherwise, everyone is extrapolating and even the video title is manipulative in trying to illicit outrage and defensive reactionism.

    People need to stop feeding into that trap.
    I don't think capitalism actually has checks and balances outside of a conveniently put theory. Self-regulating market activities don't really happen (in the closest approximation to free markets, since a true free market is impossible).

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Clean, fresh water is a product of human labor. Catch rainwater if you want, and save up your snow from the winter.

    Since producing clean, fresh water requires human labor, you are literally recommending the dehumanizing alternative of slavery - the idea that one person has the right to the products of another.
    Or, you know, taxation and government service. There's always that.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #54
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I don't think capitalism actually has checks and balances outside of a conveniently put theory. Self-regulating market activities don't really happen (in the closest approximation to free markets, since a true free market is impossible).



    Or, you know, taxation and government service. There's always that.
    Yes, and tax money comes from labor, the vast majority of the time.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #55
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Clean, fresh water is a product of human labor. Catch rainwater if you want, and save up your snow from the winter.

    Since producing clean, fresh water requires human labor, you are literally recommending the dehumanizing alternative of slavery - the idea that one person has the right to the products of another.
    And people pay water bills in urban areas to cover the labor already.

    Although in the country people like myself have natural wells which we paid to install, but not for the water itself.

    Paying for labor to extract natural resources is a completely different concept than someone assuming ownership over a natural resource. Solar and wind are are great example of this because there has never been a question of paying people for the labor and invention to extract the resource, but that is different from someone claiming ownership over the energy of the sun or wind. Companies claim ownership over coal, oil, gasoline in the material sense, and not just the labor extracting it. There is a deep arrogance required to assume this type of ownership of natural resources.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
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    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
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  6. #56
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    And people pay water bills in urban areas to cover the labor already.

    Although in the country people like myself have natural wells which we paid to install, but not for the water itself.

    Paying for labor to extract natural resources is a completely different concept than someone assuming ownership over a natural resource. Solar and wind are are great example of this because there has never been a question of paying people for the labor and invention to extract the resource, but that is different from someone claiming ownership over the energy of the sun or wind. Companies claim ownership over coal, oil, gasoline in the material sense, and not just the labor extracting it. There is a deep arrogance required to assume this type of ownership of natural resources.
    Did anybody say you shouldn't have the right to the water on your land?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #57
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Did anybody say you don't have the right to the water on your land?
    I guess I'm familiar with this concept being taken to a further extent. Have you seen "Even the Rain"? It is based on what actually took place in Brazil regarding water rights. I consider the water on my own land somewhat irrelevant to the overall discussion because even if it were never called into question, if the type of concepts were continued which were initiated in Brazil for others, then I have a problem with Nestle' and any other corporation attempting to claim ownership of water. Why isn't it a public good, exactly? Especially because of its fluid nature? For example, even the water in our well is connected to all the water on adjacent lands and could easily be extracted by someone at a location beyond property lines. It is similar, although not quite as ephemeral, as the winds above my land. Do I own that air because of making payments to a bank for the land? But like I said, it doesn't come down to my well - or anyone else's single well. It is of a larger scale, interconnected nature. It is a public good and absolutely a human right.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  8. #58
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Yes, and tax money comes from labor, the vast majority of the time.
    Right. So are you classifying taxation as slavery?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  9. #59
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I guess I'm familiar with this concept being taken to a further extent. Have you seen "Even the Rain"? It is based on what actually took place in Brazil regarding water rights. I consider the water on my own land somewhat irrelevant to the overall discussion because even if it were never called into question, if the type of concepts were continued which were initiated in Brazil for others, then I have a problem with Nestle' and any other corporation attempting to claim ownership of water. Why isn't it a public good, exactly? Especially because of its fluid nature? For example, even the water in our well is connected to all the water on adjacent lands and could easily be extracted by someone at a location beyond property lines. It is similar, although not quite as ephemeral, as the winds above my land. Do I own that air because of making payments to a bank for the land? But like I said, it doesn't come down to my well - or anyone else's single well. It is of a larger scale, interconnected nature. It is a public good and absolutely a human right.
    What exactly does this right consist of?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #60
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Right. So are you classifying taxation as slavery?
    No.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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