User Tag List

First 61415161718 Last

Results 151 to 160 of 196

  1. #151
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    13,989

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Do they? Care to elaborate?

    I'm not saying you're wrong simply that this could be considered to be true for the broad spectrum of political ideologies, unless it is demonstrable that other things, considered rights, are not merely needs.

    The slave societies of the past professed in natural slaves and that universal human rights were absurdities as a result, the critics of republicanism in France in the UK suggested that all the talk of universal rights were "nonsense on stilts"
    Consider the assertion used by the Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights to justify the right to water: "The human right to water is indispensable for leading a life in human dignity. It is a prerequisite for the realization of other human rights."

    Does this mean that people need water in order to obtain dignity and other human rights?

    Dignity is "The quality or state of being worthy of esteem or respect." Do people need water in order to be deemed worthy of esteem or respect?

    Word salad.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #152
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Te
    Posts
    1,387

    Default

    You have a right to utilize and drink water, but not to have water freely provided to you. That seems to be pretty clearly what the Nestle CEO is saying and I don't see how it's in any way controversial. But people are eager to call this man some kind of evil capitalist pig or something. How ridiculous. Maybe it would be different if people were actually dying of thirst, but clearly that isn't the case, not in the western world anyway.
    You lose.

    _______

    RCOEI
    Melancholic-Choleric
    Respectful Leader

    Johari Window|Nohari Window

  3. #153
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Te
    Posts
    1,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Other than the fact that all of the freest, wealthiest nations on the planet are some form of a representative democracy?
    Representative democracies aren't really democracies. Only the representatives get a vote. Kind of like the shareholders, huh?


    BTW, I think that's a good thing. I don't like the idea of the public being able to vote away my rights without restrictions.
    You lose.

    _______

    RCOEI
    Melancholic-Choleric
    Respectful Leader

    Johari Window|Nohari Window

  4. #154
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Te
    Posts
    1,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    And how is that?
    What evil, profit-seeking company would waste a resource critical to its success and world domination? The more waste, the less domination they can have over the poor and downtrodden.
    You lose.

    _______

    RCOEI
    Melancholic-Choleric
    Respectful Leader

    Johari Window|Nohari Window

  5. #155
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Te
    Posts
    1,387

    Default

    There's a difference between access to untreated, "natural" water and having treated water provided to you. Brabeck seems to me at least to be acknowledging this, but people insist he's saying something else. I don't think there's as much disagreement in this thread as people think there is; it seems like a lot of back and forth for nothing. I certainly wouldn't want to see people denied access to water, but that's really not what's in question. This is about a natural, negative right vs a positive right. What if people suddenly stop treating water? Who provides it then? If something ceases to exist without the labor of others, I don't see how it can be seen as a natural right. Not so much that it shouldn't be a right, but that it "can't" be a right.
    You lose.

    _______

    RCOEI
    Melancholic-Choleric
    Respectful Leader

    Johari Window|Nohari Window

  6. #156

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Consider the assertion used by the Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights to justify the right to water: "The human right to water is indispensable for leading a life in human dignity. It is a prerequisite for the realization of other human rights."

    Does this mean that people need water in order to obtain dignity and other human rights?

    Dignity is "The quality or state of being worthy of esteem or respect." Do people need water in order to be deemed worthy of esteem or respect?

    Word salad.
    Still failing to understand what your point is or what you're trying to convey.

    You could say that there has been a confusion between needs and rights but you could say that for any one of the things deemed to be human rights.

  7. #157

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    There's a difference between access to untreated, "natural" water and having treated water provided to you. Brabeck seems to me at least to be acknowledging this, but people insist he's saying something else. I don't think there's as much disagreement in this thread as people think there is; it seems like a lot of back and forth for nothing. I certainly wouldn't want to see people denied access to water, but that's really not what's in question. This is about a natural, negative right vs a positive right. What if people suddenly stop treating water? Who provides it then? If something ceases to exist without the labor of others, I don't see how it can be seen as a natural right. Not so much that it shouldn't be a right, but that it "can't" be a right.
    Yeah but the contexts which are being talked about the water was there freely available and used by the community but following international trade agreements and interventions from the IMF, WTO etc. the community go to the pump or water hole, that's always been there, and there's a cap on it or a guard and they're told that unless they can pay they can no longer use it, most of these communities are subsistence communites or agrarian small holders so there are no paying jobs for them to take in order to be able to pay. Do you see?

    I think you are thinking of your local water provider, in a first world context, and if people decided they didnt feel like paying them anymore because they have a feel of entitlement based upon being a human being and that's not what is being talked about, this is a stupid application of first world and developed world economic ideology upon a context in which it does not suit, its as stupid as the whole Fanta babies, deisel tractors in subsaharan africa and other "developmentalist" and world systems economic fails in the eighties and earlier.

  8. #158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    What evil, profit-seeking company would waste a resource critical to its success and world domination? The more waste, the less domination they can have over the poor and downtrodden.
    Which in theory would appear fine, a tight ideological explanation, although it does not have any baring upon fact and actual experience, which do you prefer a tight ideology or rigourous study of the facts? Only one is true.

  9. #159

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    Representative democracies aren't really democracies. Only the representatives get a vote. Kind of like the shareholders, huh?


    BTW, I think that's a good thing. I don't like the idea of the public being able to vote away my rights without restrictions.
    Cheer leader for plutonomy.

    Well I dont like the fact that the few can buy and sell me, seems worse than the voting away my rights idea and, you know, its actually happening as opposed to being a great big maybe.

  10. #160
    Warflower Nijntje's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    CRZY
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    3,225

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    Our tap water back at home isn't potable. We have to boil and filter it ourselves. We'd get seriously sick if we didn't.

    I still feel surprised when see people buying crates of bottled water here in the US. Why? The tap water is JUST FINE here. It seems really bizarre to me.
    That's kind of like where i grew up, you could drink the water, but there was no guarantee you wouldn't get sick, esp. if it was summer and the river was low. yay for pollution.

    Terrible things happen to good people every day.
    Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
    I am one of the terrible things.
    .



    Conclusion: Dinosaurs


Similar Threads

  1. What is possible and what is not
    By Gauche in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 12-23-2008, 06:32 AM
  2. "I" is not one person?
    By nightning in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10-29-2008, 03:01 AM
  3. Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate
    By ygolo in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 10-27-2007, 10:18 PM
  4. Yeuck... turquoise is NOT suitable...
    By Xander in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 06-23-2007, 05:48 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO