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  1. #61
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    This definitely exists still, even if people don't use the term "'welfare queen". I don't see how pointing out that people think this way is racist. Quite the opposite, actually.

    I'm not sure how satirizing the racial element of criticism of "government handouts" is racist. It exists. He didn't seem to be agreeing with it; it was obviously sarcastic. You can't even use food stamps to buy anything other than food, but people still have this fear anyway. (Food stamps is an antiquated term, by the way, today, SNAP is administered through an EBT card. At least, that's how it works in Pennsylvania and Delaware.) An EBT card is not an ATM card that you can just get cash out of.

    I mean, it's interesting that things like food stamps and welfare get slashed, but no one dare touch Medicare and social security (even billionaires can get social security, as far as I know!). This is because there's a perception that exists that the people using the former are minorities scamming the system, and the latter is ma and pa, or increasingly, boomers themselves. I don't think that's right or fair, but that doesn't change the fact that people think this way.
    Thanks for the post. I don't understand the silly exchange above.

    But I would point out that people CAN (and do) scam the system.

    Here's how the scam works. You get a EBT card. You're right, you can't just get the cash off the card.

    So shady retailers offer a service. You walk in with $100 on the card. You give them the $100 card, they make $100 in government cheese presumably for the WIC approved food items they sold you. But instead of groceries they give you $50-75 in cash.

    There are harsh penalties for trading SNAP benefits, but this sort of isn't unheard of. Do a quick search.

    http://articles.philly.com/2013-05-1...stamp-benefits

    http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/m...p-fraud/nXkGT/

    http://www.wacotrib.com/news/courts_...959e3fab9.html


    That said, all things added up supposedly fraud only accounts for 1% of the nearly 80 billion dollar program. 1% of a huge number is still a large amount.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  2. #62
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    Thanks for the post. I don't understand the silly exchange above.

    But I would point out that people CAN (and do) scam the system.

    Here's how the scam works. You get a EBT card. You're right, you can't just get the cash off the card.

    So shady retailers offer a service. You walk in with $100 on the card. You give them the $100 card, they make $100 in government cheese presumably for the WIC approved food items they sold you. But instead of groceries they give you $50-75 in cash.

    There are harsh penalties for trading SNAP benefits, but this sort of isn't unheard of. Do a quick search.

    http://articles.philly.com/2013-05-1...stamp-benefits

    http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/m...p-fraud/nXkGT/

    http://www.wacotrib.com/news/courts_...959e3fab9.html


    That said, all things added up supposedly fraud only accounts for 1% of the nearly 80 billion dollar program. 1% of a huge number is still a large amount.
    Oh, of course fraud happens. Given the alternative, though, I think food stamps are a good thing. The fact that some people take advantage of it does not change the fact that it has helped many people, myself included. I think, too, that if you eliminated food stamps, theft would skyrocket. Most people, I think, would prefer breaking the law to death by starvation.

    I never hear people get indignant about Social Security/Medicare fraud, but I'm sure that happens. I only hear people complain about welfare and food stamp fraud. Social security and Medicare is knowns as the "third rail" of American politics, and Ryan's proposals to change it helped Romney lose the election. Cutting social security/medicare is unpopular. Cutting welfare/food stamps is not, because the recipents are seen as either shifty minorities or perhaps entitled lazy twenty-somethings.

    If we're going to cut foodstamps, let's have the balls to cut social security and medicare, too. As I understand it, there is no income cap for social security, so this means Bill Gates will be eligible for Social Security. Surely he can do without government assistance?
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  3. #63
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Oh, of course fraud happens. Given the alternative, though, I think food stamps are a good thing. The fact that some people take advantage of it does not change the fact that it has helped many people, myself included. I think, too, that if you eliminated food stamps, theft would skyrocket. Most people, I think, would prefer breaking the law to death by starvation.
    I'd consider 99% non-fraudulent usage to be pretty good, though that figure does come from the people who are running the program...so I am a little skeptical. But without security features and with shady retailers out there it's not that unbelievable that there is some trading of SNAP for drugs and other things. Even with honest retailers it's pretty easy to find someone to buy groceries for who will give you cash. And not everyone who is doing that is nessesarily doing it to buy things like cigarrettes, but might be trying to get other goods/services like clothing or shoes.

    But overall, I think it's a good thing. Frankly the concept of "natural selection" or "let them starve" just doesn't work. People will find a way to survive. That said, I'd prefer to teach people to fish rather than just keep giving them fish, but it works as a temporary measure and job training is another problem in itself.

    May I ask what circumstances you were on the program? And you said "helped" so I assume you're no longer on it, what changed in your life?

    I question if it's really that dramatic though and people are actually starving considering the level of food waste out there (especially in the city). Plenty of food out there, it's just not all that accessible unless you're willing to chase after it, which takes resources in itself. If I was starving I'd be dumpster diving scrounging trapping and hunting...

    But it's hard to go to school when you're doing that. Food in the fridge at home creates stability that lets you do other things, like have a job.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  4. #64
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post

    May I ask what circumstances you were on the program? And you said "helped" so I assume you're no longer on it, what changed in your life?
    When I first moved out of my parents house, I didn't have a job. I had enough savings for rent, but not very much left over. And yes, once I got a job, I went off of it.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  5. #65

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    Its only food stamps for the poor being f**ked up, food stamps for the military industrial complex and bankers and other richy riches are on the up and up. Keeping those stamps steady, even during a recession, is what cutting the pennies for the poor is all about.

  6. #66
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    As a non-American, Falcarius does not understand why the US even has food stamps. It makes no sense to him why food stamps are needed in any country with unemployment benefit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.

  7. #67
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post

    I never hear people get indignant about Social Security/Medicare fraud, but I'm sure that happens. I only hear people complain about welfare and food stamp fraud. Social security and Medicare is knowns as the "third rail" of American politics, and Ryan's proposals to change it helped Romney lose the election. Cutting social security/medicare is unpopular. Cutting welfare/food stamps is not, because the recipents are seen as either shifty minorities or perhaps entitled lazy twenty-somethings.

    If we're going to cut foodstamps, let's have the balls to cut social security and medicare, too. As I understand it, there is no income cap for social security, so this means Bill Gates will be eligible for Social Security. Surely he can do without government assistance?
    Oh wow...I was just thinking that. Medicare fraud is crazy bad. We had to learn about this in my medical reimbursement class:

    https://oig.hhs.gov/fraud/fugitives/

    But it's true that you don't hear people going off about that. It lacks that oh-so-yummy 'scapegoat' flavor.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    I think that any program that hands out money for anything has people scheming to try and get some.

    I understand these discussions usually take a very partisan route, and that indeed, there is a scapegoat factor that let's the most partisan of the bunch focus on whatever group they don't like and demonize them.

    But I think if you look for it I'd rest assured you'll find criticism of just about any government program no matter what.

    I wouldn't claim to be an expert on any of this, so maybe food stamps are seen in a particularly negative light, I don't know.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  9. #69
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    Slashed is not the term I would use given the growth in the program over the last decade or so.

  10. #70
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Slashed is not the term I would use given the growth in the program over the last decade or so.
    Yeah, it's not like there were events that would have put a lot of people out of work or something.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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