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Thread: PRISM

  1. #21
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    The scariest thing for me, and I've been freaking out about civil liberties violations since around 2005 or so, is how much more people care about the boogeyman the media says is out to get them (terrorists) and not about the boogeyman that is getting them (the gov't).

    I'm so jaded on the whole thing now that part of me wants the lemming esque masses to pay for their complacency.

    Fire up the black vans and let the extra judicial renditions begin.

    I stopped hoping for much change on this front long ago.

    No real change will happen until serious damage is done in the name of security. Civil rights violations are too nuanced a thought for many people to fit in their heads when faced with the (insanely unlikely) proposition of brown people blowing you up for religious reasons.

    This kind of shit is what led me to become a (moderate Republican) Libertarian. While this will cause a stink, it'll be swept under the rug, and as tech grows so shall surveillance.

    If enough people would give a shit, we could change things without drastic measures. But I don't really see that happening, unless there is a massive libertarian influx ushered by Rand Paul into the GOP.

    While I think a libertarian influx is likely, I don't see it being strong enough to oust the intrenched interests that want nothing more than to spy on the innocent.

    I sincerely hope it doesn't come to this, but I'm ready to hoist the black flag and start slitting throats, in the meantime I'll be waiting for the rest of the country to catch up to my line of thinking.

    Hopefully the public wakes up before that's necessary.

  2. #22
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  3. #23
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    Fun fact: 1984 went up to the 19 on Amazon's best seller list from yesterday to early morning today. Unfortunately, it is no longer up there it seems.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The Daily Beast is Garbage except for David Frum, who has actually stopped posting there.

    At this point, it's about on the same level as RedState for bias.
    The thought process of "likely" scenarios were great, to say the least.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The scariest thing for me, and I've been freaking out about civil liberties violations since around 2005 or so, is how much more people care about the boogeyman the media says is out to get them (terrorists) and not about the boogeyman that is getting them (the gov't).

    I'm so jaded on the whole thing now that part of me wants the lemming esque masses to pay for their complacency.

    Fire up the black vans and let the extra judicial renditions begin.

    I stopped hoping for much change on this front long ago.

    No real change will happen until serious damage is done in the name of security. Civil rights violations are too nuanced a thought for many people to fit in their heads when faced with the (insanely unlikely) proposition of brown people blowing you up for religious reasons.

    This kind of shit is what led me to become a (moderate Republican) Libertarian. While this will cause a stink, it'll be swept under the rug, and as tech grows so shall surveillance.

    If enough people would give a shit, we could change things without drastic measures. But I don't really see that happening, unless there is a massive libertarian influx ushered by Rand Paul into the GOP.

    While I think a libertarian influx is likely, I don't see it being strong enough to oust the intrenched interests that want nothing more than to spy on the innocent.

    I sincerely hope it doesn't come to this, but I'm ready to hoist the black flag and start slitting throats, in the meantime I'll be waiting for the rest of the country to catch up to my line of thinking.

    Hopefully the public wakes up before that's necessary.
    There is one thing I know. The Electronic Frontier Foundation and the ACLU have been fighting these things for years. My views have more and more aligned with the two groups, which is to uphold civil liberties.

    Am I jaded? Either this event is big enough to change the law, or some person in the future will look for something even bigger. I've been looking at some out of the way information. 70% of contractors for intelligence in America are private contractors, like Booz Allen Hamilton, which James Clapper worked for previously. Seems likely who would of benefited from CISPA or the Senate equivalent would of been all these private contractors. Good thing it has been on "hold" for a while now (I don't know if they had done some piece meal on the bill into other bills or not.)

    What I am also seeing are the politicians that have been fighting against this for years. They may not be up to "standards" yet, but it seems they are getting louder. Besides Rand Paul, Ron Wyden and Mark Udall are two of these people.

  4. #24
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    If US public opinion really does stand more in favor of surveillance than privacy, this dude may be toast.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  5. #25
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    I was twenty when the Berlin wall came down, so I grew up on propaganda about the Iron Curtain, being spied on by the government, having scary people in uniforms demand that you produce your papers, and people being 'disappeared.' That was all stuff the bad guys did. Now we are the bad guys.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I was twenty when the Berlin wall came down, so I grew up on propaganda about the Iron Curtain, being spied on by the government, having scary people in uniforms demand that you produce your papers, and people being 'disappeared.' That was all stuff the bad guys did. Now we are the bad guys.
    And to all intents and purposes the threat levels are meant to be a lot different and lower than they were back then when there was open and declared superpower conflict and the possibility of world war or thermonuclear war.

  7. #27
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    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    If US public opinion really does stand more in favor of surveillance than privacy, this dude may be toast.
    That, or......

    I like how polls are often worded in a way to cause people to vote for one way or another.

    "Terrorism" strikes a cord compared to "National Security."

    I also like how all those people who had a problem with Bush no long has a problem here.

  9. #29
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    One explanation of the polling numbers is partisanship.

    Thinking goes that if it weren't Obama (or possibly even just Democrats) in the WH that there would be much more of a stink being made.

    This is the mirror image of the NYT sitting on the warrantless wiretapping story for a year in '05 (or whenever).

    The worrying thing, is that many people seem more concerned about how news stories make their guy look as opposed to whether what is going on is good for the nation (right now that's Obama, but the GOP did the same thing).

    Apparently some out there care more about how this makes their team look than about what is right.

    This goes for us as well, because large swaths of the GOP are heavily influenced by the neo-con hawks. This slavish devotion to military spending can be seen in the increasingly shaky defense of domestic spying coming from some on the right.

    Come on Libertarians.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    If US public opinion really does stand more in favor of surveillance than privacy, this dude may be toast.
    Compare the results to 7 yrs ago.



    If there's a direct relationship between the acceptance of an administration and the acceptance of actions taken by the federal government, then Obama's really played his cards right. Not necessarily in a good way.

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