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  1. #11
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    In fairness there aren't many smart conservatives represented in the mainstream media.
    True. And I do talk to smart conservatives, but I usually still disagree with them.
    Masquerading as a normal person day after day is exhausting.

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  2. #12
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I'm not so comfortable with being totally morally relativistic about different cultures, nor do I apply rights or matters of proper conduct to the interaction between countries. So, it would not strike me as unfair in any way for a country to defend itself from ideological infilitration while ideologically infiltrating others.

    That being said, there are serious practical limits. The USA cannot simply go around righting every wrong in the world, as it is logistically impossible. What's more, right and wrong runs into more problems from internal disagreement than it does from outside resistance. I don't really believe the US government was ever trying to do the right things in Iraq. This country currently has far too many problems of its own to bother passing moral authority onto others. We need all of our resources to pull ourselves out of the ditch we're falling into.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanton Moore View Post
    It's self-congratulatory to say that we pursue foreign wars and 'interests' in order to spread democracy. More likely that we do so in order to control resources, and preserve our access to them, which means oil.
    Why didn't we invade Rwanda? It would have saves possible millions of lives. The answer is that they have no resources we need.
    Real politick, not altruism, is the driver of foreign policy.
    Resources may have played a role in the decision to invade Iraq, but the results don't hold up.

    We didn't lower the price of fuel for the US and we haven't economically benefited from the conflict in any way except insofar as the conflict has funded defense industry products and they have hired to meet the demand.

    The resources may have played a role in going there, but the heart of the ideological foundation much like Vietnam was to bring democracy.

    If we can kill the notion that it is good to push democracy everywhere, we will do more to improve our foreign policy.

    The resource pillaging you refer to is a somewhat facile understanding of the motivations behind our foreign policy excursions.

    Pushing democracy has been the core of our foreign policy since the start of the cold war. Unfortunately we still have the cold war mindset of "if we don't push democracy, the bad guys will push their political system and win the battle for the world."

    Our leaders should be smart enough to know that the costs of invading and fighting overseas exceed the value of any resources one is hopeful to gain.

  4. #14
    WALMART
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    I will never pretend to know what conservatism entails


    (also, we get a very small percentage of Middle Eastern oil. China buys the most. Argue they to be puppeteers, if you want to make any argument from that angle.)

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    You should all wear stickers so that I can actually recognize you.
    Talk to libertarian Republicans.

  6. #16
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    I will never pretend to know what conservatism entails
    It's a bit of a fluid concept, but this a good start: http://www.kirkcenter.org/index.php/...ve-principles/
    Take the weakest thing in you
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    So you can let go when you give it

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Gawd, did I just agree with Pat Buchanan on something?
    Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    It's a bit of a fluid concept, but this a good start: http://www.kirkcenter.org/index.php/...ve-principles/
    Great piece by Russel Kirk.

    Conservatism is more of an outlook than it is a hard and fast set of ideological principles.

  9. #19
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Talk to libertarian Republicans.
    Unfortunately you'll trade intelligence for a huge lack of social adeptness with the vast majority.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Unfortunately you'll trade intelligence for a huge lack of social adeptness with the vast majority.
    Yea, I should have said, talk to conservatives with libertarian leanings, the true libertarian believers are just as bad as true liberal believers or hardcore conservatives.

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