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Thread: IRS and the DOJ

  1. #31
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    The only amendment Republicans care about anymore is 2nd. What good is a gun when the government can kill you with a drone strike?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    There's nothing here that can't be found elsewhere. And this isn't mere political dysfunction. The government has the technology to monitor everything we do, and the movement to stop it is far to weak to have any impact. We're done. Privacy, the 4th amendment, the 5th amendment, the 1st amendment...they're all history.
    I can't find the 2nd amendment elsewhere.

    I can't find "the South" and get grits for breakfast anywhere else.

    The UF Gators don't play anywhere else. My family isn't anywhere else.

    My friends are here. Nowhere else is the economic hegemon, or as free (despite recent setbacks) as we are here.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The only amendment Republicans care about anymore is 2nd. What good is a gun when the government can kill you with a drone strike?
    The gov't has to find a soldier willing to fire on the US public.

    Our military is a lot of things, but it's better than any other force in the world at doing the right thing.

    I think getting the foot soldiers to kill US citizens would be a particularly heavy lift for the command structure.

    Also, the public is way larger than the militaries several million.

    If you doubt the effectiveness of Guerrilla warfare let me point to Afghanistan, Iraq, and Vietnam.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The gov't has to find a soldier willing to fire on the US public.

    Our military is a lot of things, but it's better than any other force in the world at doing the right thing.

    I think getting the foot soldiers to kill US citizens would be a particularly heavy lift for the command structure.

    Also, the public is way larger than the militaries several million.
    Foot soldiers? That's the problem with 2nd amendment zealots. They imagine a formal battle where they would be fighting foot soldiers, not tanks, jets, missiles, and drones. I'm pro 2nd amendment, but not because I think we might need guns for an armed insurrection.

    The problem with drones is that they make killing a LOT easier. The "soldier" is almost totally removed from the emotional impact of the kill. They're not killing people, they're killing pixels on the computer screen, like a video game. I don't think it would be that difficult to convince drone pilots to fire on Americans. Hell, just threaten their families like the North Koreans do if that's what it takes.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #35
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I can't find the 2nd amendment elsewhere.

    I can't find "the South" and get grits for breakfast anywhere else.

    The UF Gators don't play anywhere else. My family isn't anywhere else.

    My friends are here. Nowhere else is the economic hegemon, or as free (despite recent setbacks) as we are here.
    None of those are compelling reasons to live in the US, IMO. In fact, a couple of them are reasons to NOT live in the US (UF and grits).

    You can live a similar lifestyle in any former British colony.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Foot soldiers? That's the problem with 2nd amendment zealots. They imagine a formal battle where they would be fighting foot soldiers, not tanks, jets, missiles, and drones. I'm pro 2nd amendment, but not because I think we might need guns for an armed insurrection.

    The problem with drones is that they make killing a LOT easier. The "soldier" is almost totally removed from the emotional impact of the kill. They're not killing people, they're killing pixels on the computer screen, like a video game. I don't think it would be that difficult to convince drone pilots to fire on Americans. Hell, just threaten their families like the North Koreans do if that's what it takes.
    A foot soldier is anyone who holds the gun, or pushes the button. That button can be for a drone, or on the stick of an F-22, or under the gunners thumb in an M1 Abrams.

    I won't argue that the farther the average soldier gets from killing the harder it is to kill. That certainly makes it easier. I would highly recommend the book On Killing that does much to expound on this point.

    Outside the Civil War, we have no precedent for the US military being turned on the populace. I firstly don't see the government taking that step.

    Secondly should they ever, I think a huge millions strong domestic guerrilla force would be nigh impossible for them to stop. It's not like we bomb civilian populations (by and large) to get insurgents in other countries.

    The best option for that involves boots on the ground if you are trying to ferret out a hiding force. I highly doubt the willingness of the US gov't to use large scale weapons of war against US.

    If anything I would expect an occupying force. Just my two cents though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    None of those are compelling reasons to live in the US, IMO. In fact, a couple of them are reasons to NOT live in the US (UF and grits).

    You can live a similar lifestyle in any former British colony.
    No I can't.

    And that's your opinion.

    Those are reasons for me, which you may disagree with, as is your God given right.

  8. #38
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    This verizon stuff plays right into the narrative created by the other three scandals.

    That "the gov't has become an unwieldy monster trampling the rights of the public under this administration".

  9. #39
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    A foot soldier is anyone who holds the gun, or pushes the button. That button can be for a drone, or on the stick of an F-22, or under the gunners thumb in an M1 Abrams.

    I won't argue that the farther the average soldier gets from killing the harder it is to kill. That certainly makes it easier. I would highly recommend the book On Killing that does much to expound on this point.

    Outside the Civil War, we have no precedent for the US military being turned on the populace. I firstly don't see the government taking that step.

    Secondly should they ever, I think a huge millions strong domestic guerrilla force would be nigh impossible for them to stop. It's not like we bomb civilian populations (by and large) to get insurgents in other countries.

    The best option for that involves boots on the ground if you are trying to ferret out a hiding force. I highly doubt the willingness of the US gov't to use large scale weapons of war against US.

    If anything I would expect an occupying force. Just my two cents though.
    1. Actually, we do have other examples of the military being turned on the populace, including the Whiskey Rebellion, internment camps, and the use of the national guard to enforce desegregation. Those are just off the top of my head.
    2. The government won't start a formal conflict to silence dissent. They'll start with a propaganda campaign, labeling dissenting individuals as dangerous, as terrorists. Then they'll kill the "terrorists". They'll blame collateral damage on the "terrorists".
    3. We are bombing civilian populations in other countries to get insurgents. When the military doesn't know the identity of those they have killed in a drone strike, those individuals are labeled as "other combatants". Basically, civilians in other countries are guilty until proven innocent. With this Verizon leak, we now know we're closer to that situation (guilty until proven innocent) on US soil than we previously thought.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    1. Actually, we do have other examples of the military being turned on the populace, including the Whiskey Rebellion, internment camps, and the use of the national guard to enforce desegregation. Those are just off the top of my head.
    2. The government won't start a formal conflict to silence dissent. They'll start with a propaganda campaign, labeling dissenting individuals as dangerous, as terrorists. Then they'll kill the "terrorists". They'll blame collateral damage on the "terrorists".
    3. We are bombing civilian populations in other countries to get insurgents. When the military doesn't know the identity of those they have killed in a drone strike, those individuals are labeled as "other combatants". Basically, civilians in other countries are guilty until proven innocent. With this Verizon leak, we now know we're closer to that situation (guilty until proven innocent) on US soil than we previously thought.
    The whiskey rebellion is in no way analogous to what we are discussing here. Neither is the national guard enforcing Desegregation. Nor are Asian internment camps.

    We don't have precedent of the guns of the military being turned against the populace in the modern era.

    Propaganda doesn't work as well when you are trying to convince the nation that as much as one third of the populace are terrorists. This is how it would go if it were a small group resisting, but good luck with that.

    The instant a citizen was killed for not giving up their guns, the gov't will have done the most to recruit rebels they can.

    The citizens in other countries aren't worth as much to the media as American citizens. Unless the gov't has complete control of the press before they crackdown on American citizens, I don't see gov't being able to stop the groundswell support those killed by the gov't would receive.

    Collateral damage brown people on the other side of the world are a damn sight different [to the media] than white people here.

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