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  1. #1
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Default Social darwinism underpins our culture and politics?



    Is social darwinism the father of our age? Does it matter?

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    Senior Member captain curmudgeon's Avatar
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    It definitely does underpin American, particularly conservative, politics to some degree.




    On a slightly related note, here's an excellent book on perhaps the darkest chapter in America's flirtation with social darwinism.

    http://www.waragainsttheweak.com/
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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelchairdoug View Post
    It definitely does underpin American, particularly conservative, politics to some degree.




    On a slightly related note, here's an excellent book on perhaps the darkest chapter in America's flirtation with social darwinism.

    http://www.waragainsttheweak.com/


    I've seen a criticism of this book before on a conservative blog, I didnt agree with the blog because it was an arch anti-welfare in any form sort of conservatism but it did a great demolition of the book.

    I'm actually in favour of eugenics properly understood, so was the original founder of planned parenthood who was also opposed to abortion.

    Times change I guess.

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    Senior Member captain curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post


    I've seen a criticism of this book before on a conservative blog, I didnt agree with the blog because it was an arch anti-welfare in any form sort of conservatism but it did a great demolition of the book.

    I'm actually in favour of eugenics properly understood, so was the original founder of planned parenthood who was also opposed to abortion.

    Times change I guess.
    What do you mean by 'eugenics properly understood'?
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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelchairdoug View Post
    What do you mean by 'eugenics properly understood'?
    Eugenics has meant a lot of things to different people, to most people its equated with extermination or sterilisation programmes, even segregationist programmes (with a range of critera, not least of which is race or mental health), experimentation upon unawares populations (that's pretty recent, I think it took place in Sweden, there were also incidents in Indonesia or authorised by Indonesia but they may have been as part of a greater ethnic cleansing project, John Pilger reported on it).

    Instead it could be about providing people with information and recommending informed judgements and considerations, if someone knows that the person they are interested in belongs to a genetic background which is akin to make their distant (or even close) relatives would they pursue the relationship none the less? Perhaps, although that knowledge alone and the hope that they would not and would make a better choice I would consider eugenics.

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    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Social Darwinism is a total bastardization of the theory of evolution. Notice, I don't believe Charles Darwin ever proposed any social application to his theory (careful here - I mean how it plays out in modern human society, like the business world and such). Lesser minds, however, read his work and made shaky connections to society that tended to support their own agendas, as people often do. Specifically, they cried out "social Darwinism!" whenever they objected to some practice they perceived as unfair.

    The entire problem, of course, is that DARWINISM is ABSOLUTE. It applies to nature fully and at all times, no matter what. It applies to all of us, right now. It never won't. It's like a fundamental force of the universe. Thing is, it isn't as bad as it sounds.

    People cry "social Darwinism" about capitalism because it is more honest and transparent, and so they are able to - it's like, um, ya, obviously life isn't fair and never will be. Duh. Centralized "pie in the sky for everyone" ideologies support themselves on the deceitful claim that the human race has finally figured out a way to give everyone equal advantages and opportunities at all times. To believe this is utter folly, and the consequences are much worse than they ever were with simple, realistic, no fun capitalism. It's the age old concept of "too good to be true."

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    Social Darwinism is a total bastardization of the theory of evolution. Notice, I don't believe Charles Darwin ever proposed any social application to his theory (careful here - I mean how it plays out in modern human society, like the business world and such). Lesser minds, however, read his work and made shaky connections to society that tended to support their own agendas, as people often do. Specifically, they cried out "social Darwinism!" whenever they objected to some practice they perceived as unfair.

    The entire problem, of course, is that DARWINISM is ABSOLUTE. It applies to nature fully and at all times, no matter what. It applies to all of us, right now. It never won't. It's like a fundamental force of the universe. Thing is, it isn't as bad as it sounds.

    People cry "social Darwinism" about capitalism because it is more honest and transparent, and so they are able to - it's like, um, ya, obviously life isn't fair and never will be. Duh. Centralized "pie in the sky for everyone" ideologies support themselves on the deceitful claim that the human race has finally figured out a way to give everyone equal advantages and opportunities at all times. To believe this is utter folly, and the consequences are much worse than they ever were with simple, realistic, no fun capitalism. It's the age old concept of "too good to be true."
    How did you do that? Change a thread discussion about social darwinism into one discussing central planning? Why did you do it?

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    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    How did you do that? Change a thread discussion about social darwinism into one discussing central planning? Why did you do it?
    Wow, can't even say anything even REMOTELY right here without getting accused of something, huh. I mean shit, I thought that might be a problem when I was writing the post, so I avoided buzzwords like "liberal" or "communist" and I still got flamed. Fuck me. My post is on topic, dude. If people don't want to go down the "central planning" path here, I hope they don't. Social Dawinism is relevant to that, though. I literally just watched a video in which Richard Dawkins claims that capitalism is social Darwinism in action.

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    Wow, can't even say anything even REMOTELY right here without getting accused of something, huh. I mean shit, I thought that might be a problem when I was writing the post, so I avoided buzzwords like "liberal" or "communist" and I still got flamed. Fuck me. My post is on topic, dude. If people don't want to go down the "central planning" path here, I hope they don't. Social Dawinism is relevant to that, though. I literally just watched a video in which Richard Dawkins claims that capitalism is social Darwinism in action.
    Didnt get flamed at all, I posted a response, you know how discussion works? Or do you do it differently?

  10. #10
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Right, and I'm an idiot. I'm sorry, your post wasn't full of sarcasm. It was sincere. Thank you for being you. You're awesome.

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