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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Attention whores and bored people with nothing going on in their lives who need something to complain about.

    That is the basis of our country's ethical controversies.
    For 250,000 years we struggled for survival. Then about 8,000 years ago we discovered agriculture. Then about 3,000 years ago we found Judaism followed by Christianity. Then about 2,400 years ago we discovered philosophy. Then in the 17th and 18th centuries we found the Enlightenment with evidence and reason, freedom and equality.

    And today throughout the world we are carrying out the project of the Enlightenment. For instance, a whole Continent, Australia, is a project of the Enlightenment.

    But much of the world is still benighted. Much of the world has yet to discover the values of evidence and reason. And much of the world is yet to discover the values of freedom and equality.

    So the basis of our ethical controversies is the Enlightement project of equality and freedom, evidence and reason.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    For 250,000 years we struggled for survival. Then about 8,000 years ago we discovered agriculture. Then about 3,000 years ago we found Judaism followed by Christianity. Then about 2,400 years ago we discovered philosophy. Then in the 17th and 18th centuries we found the Enlightenment with evidence and reason, freedom and equality.

    And today throughout the world we are carrying out the project of the Enlightenment. For instance, a whole Continent, Australia, is a project of the Enlightenment.

    But much of the world is still benighted. Much of the world has yet to discover the values of evidence and reason. And much of the world is yet to discover the values of freedom and equality.

    So the basis of our ethical controversies is the Enlightement project of equality and freedom, evidence and reason.
    I suppose both our opinions are valid. Your view is more positive and you seem to only be referencing those individuals with self respect and a care about the world as a whole.

    I'm referring to the worthless political debates of border control, gay marriage, and abortion law. Why are these worthless? Because no one wants to talk about the bankruptcy of our country, as we should be.

  3. #123
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    For 250,000 years we struggled for survival. Then about 8,000 years ago we discovered agriculture. Then about 3,000 years ago we found Judaism followed by Christianity. Then about 2,400 years ago we discovered philosophy. Then in the 17th and 18th centuries we found the Enlightenment with evidence and reason, freedom and equality.

    And today throughout the world we are carrying out the project of the Enlightenment. For instance, a whole Continent, Australia, is a project of the Enlightenment.

    But much of the world is still benighted. Much of the world has yet to discover the values of evidence and reason. And much of the world is yet to discover the values of freedom and equality.

    So the basis of our ethical controversies is the Enlightement project of equality and freedom, evidence and reason.
    This is possibly my favorite quote of yours. It is beautiful.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    I suppose both our opinions are valid. Your view is more positive and you seem to only be referencing those individuals with self respect and a care about the world as a whole.

    I'm referring to the worthless political debates of border control, gay marriage, and abortion law. Why are these worthless? Because no one wants to talk about the bankruptcy of our country, as we should be.
    Sure, and looking at you from the other side of the world, it is obvious you are the largest economy in the world, the most advanced technologically, and own, control and print the Reserve Currency of the World.

    So you can solve you economic problems by raising taxes and prudently regulating your financial system.

    We have a Free Trade Agreement with you and it is plain to us you are not bankrupt, in fact you are so prosperous you can afford to play politics with your economy.

    But you have national emotions as well as a national economy, and hot buttom issues like abortion, gay marriage and border control, feed your national emotions.

    You are so prosperous you can play politics with your economy as well as feed your national psyche with hot button emotions.

  5. #125
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    For 250,000 years we struggled for survival. Then about 8,000 years ago we discovered agriculture. Then about 3,000 years ago we found Judaism followed by Christianity. Then about 2,400 years ago we discovered philosophy. Then in the 17th and 18th centuries we found the Enlightenment with evidence and reason, freedom and equality.

    And today throughout the world we are carrying out the project of the Enlightenment. For instance, a whole Continent, Australia, is a project of the Enlightenment.

    But much of the world is still benighted. Much of the world has yet to discover the values of evidence and reason. And much of the world is yet to discover the values of freedom and equality.

    So the basis of our ethical controversies is the Enlightement project of equality and freedom, evidence and reason.
    Whos "we" in this case? Certainly not our Western governments! Why doesnt the US, UK, Russia, and France do something about dictatorial regimes like the one in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and while we're at it, Syria? Its because theres no oil in Syria. The Syrian people who are rebelling against the current govenrment are fighting for freedom and anti Islamism in their part of the world, and they dont understand simply why the rest of the world isnt helping them out, like Fance is doing in Mali or the US and UK did in Iraq. Ill tell you why its because theres oil in Mali and oil in Iraq. Im not saying feedom isnt good and the last thing I want is tyrannical governments taking over my part of the world, but its not like anyone in office in my part of the world actually cares, thats the disgusting part, and if after readng this you feel dissapointed, well join the club.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    Whos "we" in this case? Certainly not our Western governments! Why doesnt the US, UK, Russia, and France do something about dictatorial regimes like the one in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and while we're at it, Syria? Its because theres no oil in Syria. The Syrian people who are rebelling against the current govenrment are fighting for freedom and anti Islamism in their part of the world, and they dont understand simply why the rest of the world isnt helping them out, like Fance is doing in Mali or the US and UK did in Iraq. Ill tell you why its because theres oil in Mali and oil in Iraq. Im not saying feedom isnt good and the last thing I want is tyrannical governments taking over my part of the world, but its not like anyone in office in my part of the world actually cares, thats the disgusting part, and if after readng this you feel dissapointed, well join the club.
    Our Enlightenment values of evidence and reason, freedom and equality have been so successful, there is no going back.

    China, for instance, never experienced the Enlightenment yet they have adopted half of our Enlightenment values, namely, evidence and reason, and have become enormously prosperous as a result. Of course they rejected the other half of our Enlightenment values, namely, freedom and equality, with tanks in Tiannamen Square.

    As well, all the major religions have accepted the values of the Enlightenment except Islam.

    And ironically, the New Age and mbti are a reaction against Enlightenment values.

  7. #127
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    Q: But why is our culture so hypocritical?

    A: Hypocrisy is the homage vice pays to virtue.

  8. #128
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Thank you, Victor. Enlightenment is late born.

    I knew a woman who was dying of cancer. She was in great pain, but rejected morphine. "Only the attention whores complain."

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by LevelZeroHero View Post
    This is not the topic of the thread, but merely a common example I will use to explain the topic: homosexuality.

    Why are we as a culture so accepting of one person's choice to be homosexual and not another person's choice to merely have values against homosexuality when one is far more unnatural and taboo? This makes no sense. What's more, society has taken an anti-anti-homosexuality stance, which is acceptable to society, of course, so apparently it's okay to be against someone else's stance.

    Topic: How has our society become so hypocritical that it literally embraces anything in the name of acceptance, except only the first degree of nonacceptance? That seems very rigid, legalistic, and non-accepting.
    the question is: does the viewpoint enforces itself on others?
    practicing your own thing doesn't, working against someone else being allowed to practice theirs does.

  10. #130
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post

    And ironically, the New Age and mbti are a reaction against Enlightenment values.
    How so?

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