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  1. #71
    wholly charmed Spartacuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Oh boy Spartacuss, you so missed the point on so many levels.
    Ok. I refer you to...
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacuss View Post

    --
    If that is not the answer you intended, please direct me to the right post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcarius View Post
    Quote for my entertainment.
    le sigh. disturbing, isn't it?
    Ti (43); Ne (41.8); Te (33.7); Fi (30.5); Ni (27.5); Se (24.7); Si (21.5); Fe (17.3)
    The More You Know the Less You Need. - Aboriginal Saying

  2. #72
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Oh boy Spartacuss, you so missed the point on so many levels.
    No, he didn't.

  3. #73
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcarius View Post
    Quote for my entertainment.
    Read and weep:

    Christianity and Slavery

    "But fighting slavery is nothing new for Christians. After all, Christianity was born into a world where chattel slavery, one person owning another, was the cornerstone of the economy.

    Ironically, many famous historians, including those most critical of Christianity, were indifferent about the role that slavery played in antiquity. Edward Gibbon called the "cruel treatment" of slaves "almost justified by the great law of self-preservation."

    Western Christianity saw matters differently. Its spread through western Europe was accompanied by calls for an end to chattel slavery. Saint Bathilde, the wife of the seventh-century Frankish king Clovis, was canonized, in part, for her efforts to free slaves and end the slave trade.

    The result of hers and similar efforts was that, by the eleventh century, slavery had been effectively abolished in western Europe.
    The lone exceptions were areas under pagan or Muslim control. By the time Thomas Aquinas wrote the Summa Theologica in the thirteenth century, slavery was a thing of the distant past. That's why Aquinas paid little attention to the subject, devoting himself instead to the issue of serfdom, which he considered "repugnant.""
    And....
    "Slavery in early medieval Europe was relatively common. It was widespread at the end of antiquity. The etymology of the word slave comes from this period, the word sklabos meaning Slav. Slavery declined in the Middle Ages in most parts of Europe as serfdom slowly rose, but it never completely disappeared. It persisted longer in Southern and Eastern Europe.[1] In Poland slavery was forbidden in the 15th century; it was replaced by the second enserfment. In Lithuania, slavery was formally abolished in 1588.[2]... Chattel slavery of English Christians was discontinued after 1066, when William of Normandy conquered England. The slave trade in England was abolished in 1102.[7]...."

    Slavery in medieval Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  4. #74
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Peguy,

    You should really resign yourself to the inevitability that theism is going to polarize folks.

    Often times, their fundamental rationale is inexpressible, given the limited academic context available via online banter. This concept is actually a defense for you as well.

    You don't need to immediately phalanx whenever someone offers a counterpoint against a spiritual edifice dear to your heart; they aren't necessarily attacking the same ideology you're seeking to defend...

    Spartacuss made some good points. Victor and Falcarius, too.

  5. #75
    Sniffles
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    Night, you're talking to somebody whose screen-name is after a Catholic who was staunchly anti-clerical. Peguy even once declared that while he adhered to Catholicism, he despised the Church to no end.

    It's not the fact they're criticising the Church, fuck I do that constantly. Hilaire Belloc hit the nail on the head when he remarked that the greatest evidence for the Church's divine origins is that anyother "institute run with such knavish imbecility that if it were not the work of God it would not last a fortnight."

    Rather they criticise the Church for the wrong reasons, or rather for asinine reasons.

  6. #76
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Re-read my point. Asinine? Why not simply call everyone who delivers an opinion different from yours, stupid?

    I'm familiar with Peguy. I've read some of his work. His body of material is incidental to the framework of your behavior, I'm afraid.

    My rationale was as a service to you, Peguy. Clearly, I should have explicated more clearly.

  7. #77
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Re-read my point.
    I did read your point.


    Asinine? Why not simply call everyone who delivers an opinion different from yours, stupid?
    I don't because that's simply not true. I know plenty of intelligent people who hold views different from mine, and many of them I get along quite well personally.

    Im sorry, but many of the arguments presented here are just plain asinine.

    At best 1-2% of all priests are pedophiles, so trying to paint the entire character of the Church on this issue is just dishonest. Can one criticise the manner in which the Church handled the situation? Yes you can, and many(Catholics and non-Catholics) have done so - including me.

    It's another story to try use this as an excuse to throw rocks at an entire spiritual tradition. I don't think highly of Islam, but my entire argument doesn't revolve around suicide bombers or women wearing veils. Nor does my overall view prevent me from admiring certain aspects of the Islamic faith, like their mystical tradition of Sufism for example.

    Same principle applies to my attitudes towards anyother spiritual tradition.

    Thomas Merton said it best:
    "If I affirm myself as a Catholic merely by denying all that is Muslim, Jewish, Protestant, Hindu, Buddhist, etc., in the end I will find that there is not much left for me to affirm as a Catholic: and certainly no breath of the Spirit with which to affirm it."

  8. #78
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post

    Thomas Merton said it best:
    "If I affirm myself as a Catholic merely by denying all that is Muslim, Jewish, Protestant, Hindu, Buddhist, etc., in the end I will find that there is not much left for me to affirm as a Catholic: and certainly no breath of the Spirit with which to affirm it."
    Indeed.

  9. #79
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    No, she didn't.
    Fixed!
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  10. #80
    Oberon
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    Take heart, Peg. The losers won't last.

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