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  1. #31
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Identifying these two violently murderous men as terrorists is peculiar. It seems to serve only as a call for some greater institutional response to "terrorism" in general. But what is this "terrorism" around which some institutional response shall be built? Is it Islam itself? Or radical Islam only? Or are we referring to the impractical but destructive guerrilla actions carried out by the extremists "we" harbor? This is different from promoting hate, right? Let's call call it the legitimate defense of teh realm.
    I never 'felt' why nazi germany had to declare war on the communists (they had a peace treaty I believe?).

  2. #32
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    I never 'felt' why nazi germany had to declare war on the communists (they had a peace treaty I believe?).
    The peace treaty was just breathing space while each side built up their arms programmes, the hatred between communists and nazis was something irrational, unbelieveable, besides the ideological divisions there were older hatreds between the Germans and the slavs and Russians, I've heard about how anti-semitism in some of the eastern european states as rife on both sides but there was great, great hatred for each other too.

    The power of ideological divisions back in the day is something I dont think people truly understand these days, I had a grandfather who as an irish man didnt have to serve during the second war but he did, winning a lot of medals but whose service record isnt wholly known because of family fueding but when anyone asked him why he'd say pretty simple things like "The socialists and the fascists couldnt agree".

    I've heard the same in interviews about the Spanish Civil War, the left wing factions or the rehabilitated fascists and right wing. Its something I dont think people get really.

  3. #33
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    Who are "we" in your mind? Britain isn't my country.

    Regarding political ideology, this is your assertion. The attacker himself called for British troops to leave Muslim lands. And attacks like this were not happening in Britain before they occupied Muslim lands.

    In reality the very definition "terrorism" is problematic. If a white gang attacks a black man in the same way, it would be called a "hate crime", if a Muslim does it to a soldier, it's "terrorism". Strange.

    How much has the muslim poplulation in the UK grown in the past fifteen years?


    In the US, we have a problem with black gangs attacking white people, though it's not usually considered a hate crime. We also have black gangs attacking black men, though it's usually not considered a hate crime. The rare cases in which a group of whites have attacked a black man, it's always considered a hate crime. No word yet on whether a group of mexicans attacking blacks is a hate crime.

    Not strange, this act fits the definition of terrorism. Violence was used to intimidate for political and religious purposes. Is there an alternate definition of terrorism that I'm unaware of?
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    I never 'felt' why nazi germany had to declare war on the communists (they had a peace treaty I believe?).
    Yes, this is called the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact of August 23, 1939.

    It was a Pact between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany.

    And it is like the pact today between the the Left and the Islamists.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    this act fits the definition of terrorism. Violence was used to intimidate for political and religious purposes. Is there an alternate definition of terrorism that I'm unaware of?
    Yes, terrorism is defined as violence against civilians to intimidate for political purposes.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Yes, this is called the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact of August 23, 1939.

    It was a Pact between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany.

    And it is like the pact today between the the Left and the Islamists.
    In what ways Victor?

    Certainly not in the sense that one was a formalised and publicised contractual agreement and the other is just what the right wing are inclined to say about the left wing.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Yes, terrorism is defined as violence against civilians to intimidate for political purposes.
    Is it?

    Isnt the clue in the name? Terror?

    By you're own definition the OP and thread isnt about terrorism since it was an attack upon a soldier? Do you see what you did there?

  8. #38
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Yes, this is called the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact of August 23, 1939.

    It was a Pact between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany.

    And it is like the pact today between the the Left and the Islamists.
    In fact, technically...

    It's rather the American and British oil lobbies that were allied to the Islamists, and that allowed the Islamists to grow and gather vast amounts of petrodollars. For instance, the Bush dynasty still has very close economical ties with the Bin Laden dynasty. And the oil lobby is not known for its excessive liberalism...

    The "Left" as you describe it, has nothing in common with the Salafis or the al Saud. Of course, you have a few very naive militants (Trostkysts most of the time, at least in France), who consider that the Muslim Brotherhood or the Hezbollah are in fact courageous freedom fighters, but this trend is (fortunately) more the exception than the pragmatic majority. Anti-Semitism transcends what we call the Left or the Right anyway...
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  9. #39
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Yes, terrorism is defined as violence against civilians to intimidate for political purposes.
    Yes, but here the victim was a soldier. Don't you see the contradiction?
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Yes, but here the victim was a soldier. Don't you see the contradiction?
    I understood he was collecting for a military charity in a civilian space.

    And the butchery of a live person was carried out amongst civilians. So it was directed emotionally against the civilians present. But most of all it was directed against all of us through the electric media. For instance, just after the butchery was seen on the electric media, a cartoon satirizing Mohammed was suppressed in Canberra, for fear of a similar atrocity. So to me this looks like violence against civilians for political purposes. And the political purposes are global.

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