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  1. #11
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    All that really bothers me are the related growing tendencies towards pretentiousness, self-righteousness, cynicism, inauthenticity, over-valuing identity, etc. And also what @EffEmDoubleyou mentioned:

    A hipster sees an inverse relationship between the popularity of something and its value.
    This is an extremely simplistic and misanthropic way of gauging value. I'm just gonna quote some people who have good things to say on this subject:

    I am open to the possibility that everything has metaphorical merit, and I see no point in sardonically attacking the most predictable failures within any culture. -- Chuck Klosterman
    (I'm not with him on "metaphorical" but I'm not sure what I would replace it with)

    Stop worrying about your identity and concern yourself with the people you care about, ideas that matter to you, beliefs you can stand by, tickets you can run on. Intelligent humans make those choices with their brain and hearts and they make them alone. The world does not deliver meaning to you. You have to make it meaningful...and decide what you want and need and must do. It’s a tough, unimaginably lonely and complicated way to be in the world. But that’s the deal: you have to live; you can’t live by slogans, dead ideas, clichés, or national flags. Finding an identity is easy. It’s the easy way out. -- Zadie Smith

  2. #12
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    There are other things people said in this thread that I plan on replying to, but I have a question that's been niggling away in my head for years, and what is said below brings it to mind.

    All that really bothers me are the related growing tendencies towards pretentiousness, self-righteousness, cynicism, inauthenticity, over-valuing identity, etc.
    What is meant by over-valuing identity? Maybe because I'm an 5w6 and not a 5w4, I have a hard time grasping this, but I don't know if I've ever witnessed anyone "over-value" identity.

    Is this just another way of saying "placing a lot of importance on diet, music, and sartorial choices"?

    I also don't see how hipsters are any more inauthentic than beatniks or hippies were. Maybe if I could get an example?
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    What is meant by over-valuing identity? Maybe because I'm an 5w6 and not a 5w4, I have a hard time grasping this, but I don't know if I've ever witnessed anyone "over-value" identity.

    Is this just another way of saying "placing a lot of importance on diet, music, and sartorial choices"? I also don't see how hipsters are any more inauthentic than beatniks or hippies were. Maybe if I could get an example?
    sorry, that could have been clearer. I meant cultivating an image based on social trends -- making decisions based less on authentic, individual preferences than on how others will then perceive you.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by decrescendo View Post
    sorry, that could have been clearer. I meant cultivating an image based on social trends -- making decisions based less on authentic, individual preferences than on how others will then perceive you.
    I'm sorry but how is this different than anything else? Punk? New Wave? And good god the glam metal of the late 80s.

    I feel like what throws people about hipsters (although politically and socially their core values are healthy and deeply ethical, and the way to the future, how can someone not see that) is that it kind of mixes a kind of hippie/grunge vibe with something sort of like early 60s mod and early 80s new wave....so it's simultaneously pure-hearted and liberal and socially positive, yet also ridiculous and image conscious and fun.

    But you see, without the image consciousness or fun, where would the ART be in it?

    It's like people who are complaining about it want the ethics without the art!!!

    And trust me, I too don't get on the bandwagon of people shopping at particular stores to cultivate a very certain image, but like, when does this not happen? When has there ever not been a fashionable way of dressing? Even going all the way back to the Gibson Girl.


  5. #15
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    In my opinion, hipsters are just a fad clique that won't really matter in the long run. I think they will eventually fade away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    I've always thought that those who aren't still ashamed to quote Ayn Rand should be quickly interned in the closest psychiatric hospital or deprived of the right to reproduce and pollute our common gene pool.
    *Mocking slow applause* It's simply lazy to dismiss a quote or argument simply because of its source. Anyone is capable of having a good idea, even if it is buried in bad ones. Explain why it's invalid, or say nothing.

    I always love it when people reveal their true colors, though. Institutionalized due to quoting Rand, that's a classic. I can only hope you're joking.
    ...

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrinth View Post
    In my opinion, hipsters are just a fad clique that won't really matter in the long run. I think they will eventually fade away.



    *Mocking slow applause* It's simply lazy to dismiss a quote or argument simply because of its source. Anyone is capable of having a good idea, even if it is buried in bad ones. Explain why it's invalid, or say nothing.

    I always love it when people reveal their true colors, though. Institutionalized due to quoting Rand, that's a classic. I can only hope you're joking.
    Ayn Rand was a sociopath who thought a child murderer was a pure, true soul. Quoting her without irony is so passe. And kind of disturbing.

    I don't think he actually wants to institutionalize anyone, he's just trying to make a point.

    In case the article is TL; DR for you..Rand's epic hero, John Galt, was modeled after a man named William Hickman who kidnapped and dismembered a little girl.

    Ayn Rand was an insane piece of fuck. That's why people talk so much shit about her. Do some research. Read her biographies. The mean old bitch died alone and on Social Security, of all wonderfully ironic things.

    Thus "institutionalized."

    I mean unless you're 19 or illiterate, there's really no excuse.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Ayn Rand was a sociopath who thought a child murderer was a pure, true soul. Quoting her without irony is so passe. And kind of disturbing.

    I don't think he actually wants to institutionalize anyone, he's just trying to make a point.

    In case the article is TL; DR for you..Rand's epic hero, John Galt, was modeled after a man named William Hickman who kidnapped and dismembered a little girl.

    Ayn Rand was an insane piece of fuck. That's why people talk so much shit about her. Do some research. Read her biographies. The mean old bitch died alone and on Social Security, of all wonderfully ironic things.

    Thus "institutionalized."

    I mean unless you're 19 or illiterate, there's really no excuse.
    You seem to have missed the most important point of what I was trying to say. An idea is an idea. Dismissing an idea because of who came up with it is stupid. Would the point have been any different had the person who uttered the quote been omitted? I bet some of your reactions would have been.

    Thank you for the background, though. I have read some of Rand's work, but it doesn't appeal to me greatly, though I found some of her ideas interesting.

    Like I said, I can only hope that he was joking (or rather perhaps using hyperbole to express frustration). Even so, it's a stupid thing to say.
    ...

  8. #18
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    First, that music video was awful.

    Also, hipsters have this annoying way of just being so.. bland to me. You can't smile, be happy, show expression of emotion, warmth is just lost on the culture.. it's all just a bunch of people with blank faces to me. All of their music bands' pictures is just a bunch of people with blurry pictures taken with them facing the wrong way, not smiling, wearing a scarf or something... trying to be ironic, but they all just look really.. sad to me.

    Not to knock anyone--I don't understand the whole trend and I'll be the first to admit it.. but they just don't look really happy being where they are when they are in that trend. I'm not talking someone who likes something from that trend--like a vespa or the music or the glasses they wear that the army hands you in basic training (don't lie to me, I know that's where they got them from)-- but people who are really hipsters.. I mean, I never met one in high school that seemed happy, and I haven't come across any in the media that portray anything else.
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    I'm sorry but how is this different than anything else? Punk? New Wave? And good god the glam metal of the late 80s.

    I feel like what throws people about hipsters (although politically and socially their core values are healthy and deeply ethical, and the way to the future, how can someone not see that) is that it kind of mixes a kind of hippie/grunge vibe with something sort of like early 60s mod and early 80s new wave....so it's simultaneously pure-hearted and liberal and socially positive, yet also ridiculous and image conscious and fun.

    But you see, without the image consciousness or fun, where would the ART be in it?

    ...
    for the most part I'm talking about what isn't pure-hearted and socially positive but what's cynical, arrogant and contrived. but then I'm pretty extreme when it comes to authenticity. I'm also really terrified by what's expressed here:

    Marketing strategy has taken over our personalities and I hate it. Today everyone is in the business of branding themselves, accentuating their most easily grasped and deeply appealing traits. We all have to sell ourselves just to have the right to occupy space in our private and public lives.

    I am not who I am wearing. I am wearing Me: a bunch of complex and contradictory traits lined up in a body that will age. I am not a brand. I am a multiple of all the Mes inside me. Not memes. Mes. And that goes for you, us, and all of us. It is the return of complex individuality. --Dasha Zhukova
    Maybe I'm more concerned than some of the others in this thread because, as a younger person, I've seen more of this among my peers? I'd assume that when many members were teenagers, social networking either didn't exist or didn't take nearly as much precedence in social life. Of course people who are 30+ may use social media extensively, but it probably didn't interfere with your interpersonal development as much as it has with my peers (late teens, early twenties).

  10. #20
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


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