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  1. #61
    Epiphany
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I agree so whole heatedly with your last sentence. Do 15 years have sexually developed bodies? Yes. Do they have sexual urges? Yes. But to me the question is whether are fully caps able of understanding and dealing with the consequences and responsibilities of sex. I don't think most are and I don't think it's repressive or barbaric to not want 15 year old engaging in full fledged sexual relationships.

    Sexuality is so central to our identities I don't see why it wouldn't be prudent to encourage people to wait to explore it until their worldviews (and brains) are more developed. People act like sex is a "need" and it's not. If you love someone much younger than you give them the chance to develop as a person before using them for sex. It seems so unloving to me that someone wouldn't take their partners age into consideration.

    To me it's so clearly abusive. 3 years might nt be alot for say a 24 year old and a 27 year old but it's huge for teens. I really see now excuse for the idea that the 18 year olds (male or female) are falling "victim" to these laws. The clear solution would be ..,,,don't. Have sex. With minors. Just don't do it.
    It seems you are suggesting that minors should not be having sex at all, not just with adults because of their inability to comprehend the consequences. I would argue there are just as many adults who don't understand these consequences, whatever those may be. Are adults more inclined than minors to use people just for sex? What consequences, in particular, are you referring to?

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Yes, the adolescent brain is way different from the adult brain, and things start to even out in the late teens- but just to throw another monkey wrench into things- I think the most up to date info indicates that the brain isn't fully developed until somewhere around 25. Which seems nuts to me. I had a 2 year old when I was 25.
    21 is now when they figure moral competence or at least consequential thinking is developed.

    To be honest a lot of this developmental research is keeping apace with societal changes, there are huge environmental aspects to psychological development within human beings, its only just now with some of the research into insulin resistance and insulin dependent diabetes that the dietary mistakes of humankind compared with paleo ancestors are really dawning upon people, I personally think that distracted adults lead to more and more childhood deficits, traumas and longer and longer "childhoods" and that's only with a cursory reading of attachment theories developed around about the time of the war when TV, the media and internet, never mind hypercommunications in the forms known today had developed.

    When JS Mill was in his twenties he'd wrote ground breaking books whose insight is matched only by their eloquence, perhaps he was hot house educated but compare any of the books written then with many of those written now by people much later in years and learning and there's a gulf.

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moniker View Post
    It seems you are suggesting that minors should not be having sex at all, not just with "adults" because of their inability to comprehend the consequences. I would argue there are just as many adults who don't understand these consequences, whatever those may be. Are adults more inclined than minors to use people just for sex? What consequences, in particular, are you referring to?
    I'll do more than suggest, minors shouldnt under any circumstances be having sex, its not just a question of consequences, minors should be doing other things like having a fucking childhood.

    Adults shouldnt be having sex with minors because what kind of a dickhead does that? What kind of social retard can not relate to their peers and so decides to prey upon their juniors?

  4. #64
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moniker View Post
    It seems you are suggesting that minors should not be having sex at all
    I don't think they should be having sex myself*.....opinions on appropriate/effective legal sanctions are another issue entirely.

    *There's a time and place for everything, and its called college

  5. #65
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    What?! So just because there is a historical precedent that means its fine? People also had sex with slaves and children int he past does than mean that doing it in modern times isn't exploitative. Yes older men were paired with girls in their young teens but those girls were basically chattel. In a lot of those cases the idea of consent didn't even factor into it. It wasn't about chemistry.
    okay bad example, that was mostly for shock effect lol
    (for even more shock effect, I would totally have sex with a slave under the right circumstances. hell, I might even purchase them solely for that purpose, but that's another topic )

    Chemistry is not excuse for taking advantage of someone. Should we let people claim they have chemistry with 11 year olds, the severely mental handicapped? I really don't think so.
    back the main point
    - saying you have chemistry with an 11 year old and saying an 18 year old has chemistry with a 15 year old are completely different. an 11 year old doesn't even have sexual feelings
    - if the older girl were, say, 23, I could see this being an issue, but 18 and 15? I fail to see how this equates "taking advantage" of the younger one. only in America would this be considered controversial at all
    - the two girls were peers. they played on the same basketball team together. this is a perfectly natural way for relationships to form and the fact that she could face jail time for it pisses me off.
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  6. #66
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digest View Post
    You said a lot, and I agree with it. In addition to all of that, to me, being emotionally aware of the feeling of being in love does not equate to being mature enough to handle all that comes with sex. You get dumped after one date or a year-long relationship after holding hands, you get over it much easier than the same happening after you had sex because sex IS a big deal.

    I don't care if "everyone is doing it." History has proven that doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do.

    Many of these arguments may not mean to, but they come off as sounding like the same arguments some 18-20 year old would use to get the younger teen in the sack. The law may be black and white, and it may be abused, but that makes it exactly like a lot of other laws that came into being for a necessary reason. If Susie and Billy/Billatina are as in love as they claim to be, and as mature as they think they are, then they should be able to weather the storm.
    Yep. For a lot of people, maybe even most people, sex is emotionally a big deal, especially when you're at an age when everything is a big deal, including the pimple on your forehead you are *sure* is bigger than Mt. Everest.

    And not everybody is doing it. Statistically, it's more like a third to half of high school students that are sexually active.

    In the news story, I suspect if the older girl had been mature enough to wait until the younger girl was sixteen, the parents wouldn't have been able to do anything about it. As it was, all they had to do was wait for her to turn eighteen and then nail her ass to the wall. I don't think the maximum sentence fits the crime, but she walked right into it.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    I don't think they should be having sex myself*.....opinions on appropriate/effective legal sanctions are another issue entirely.

    *There's a time and place for everything, and its called college
    Perhaps, I actually regret some of my licentious ways when I was at university.

    I had to go to university three times and be educated to a masters standard to be sure

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    okay bad example, that was mostly for shock effect lol
    (for even more shock effect, I would totally have sex with a slave under the right circumstances. hell, I might even purchase them solely for that purpose, but that's another topic )


    back the main point
    - saying you have chemistry with an 11 year old and saying an 18 year old has chemistry with a 15 year old are completely different. an 11 year old doesn't even have sexual feelings
    - if the older girl were, say, 23, I could see this being an issue, but 18 and 15? I fail to see how this equates "taking advantage" of the younger one. only in America would this be considered controversial at all
    - the two girls were peers. they played on the same basketball team together. this is a perfectly natural way for relationships to form and the fact that she could face jail time for it pisses me off.
    I bolded the part of your post which is patently untrue.

    The rest of it is just untrue.

  9. #69
    Epiphany
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'll do more than suggest, minors shouldnt under any circumstances be having sex, its not just a question of consequences, minors should be doing other things like having a fucking childhood.

    Adults shouldnt be having sex with minors because what kind of a dickhead does that? What kind of social retard can not relate to their peers and so decides to prey upon their juniors?
    Let's be clear that we're not talking about pedophilia here. We're talking about two teenagers who are three years apart having consensual sex, both of whom are not sexually immature. If girls hit puberty around 11, then the younger one has been sexually maturing for 4 years. I don't think a senior in high school is a social retard for having peers that are freshmen or sophomores, nor does it make them a dickhead if they are dating one. Just my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    I don't think they should be having sex myself*.....opinions on appropriate/effective legal sanctions are another issue entirely.

    *There's a time and place for everything, and its called college
    Fair enough. But some would argue, probably Lark, that college is for studying and students shouldn't be having sex there either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Perhaps, I actually regret some of my licentious ways when I was at university.

    I had to go to university three times and be educated to a masters standard to be sure
    I stand corrected.

  10. #70
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Having a senior interested in you when you are a freshman or sophomore is kind of a big deal. It's a status thing or it was when I was in school. It contributes to making the younger person easy pickings and gives the older person an unfair advantage.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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