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  1. #31
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    Haven't read all of the thread, but the 18 year mark is bullshit. Biologically, a child becomes an adult/sexually mature at puberty. Emotional and mental maturity varies from person to person. An 18 year old can date an emotionally retarded 18 year old with the intellect of a toddler, but can't date a 15 year old who may be wise beyond her years? Certainly, these types of cases shouldn't carry such heavy consequences. Teenagers having consensual sex is not rape or predatory.

  2. #32
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    For legal adults, I think statutory rape laws (assuming a threshold of 18, in some places the age of consent is lower) should not be applicable if the minor is less than five years younger* than the adult; these teenagers have shared the same 'peer' group and social space for years, during the most hormone-laden time of their lives.....relationships are going to develop (or be continued), most teenagers can't just 'turn off' four years of intense socialization like that.

    *The law would need some fine-tuning to prevent some high-school seniors from dating some 8th graders, but you get the idea.

  3. #33
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    It's not about 18 and 15. The law doesn't differentiate. It is simply an adult (18+) and a 15 year old.

    Is it stupid - for this case and others like it? Yes. But the law doesn't allow for subjectivity. Hopefully a judge or jury will remain reasonable when faced with the facts.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I find it funny how many consider a 15 year old and 18 year old having sex a bigger deal than someone robbing a gas station. the former loses you all your job prospects and brands you a creepy sexual deviant while the latter just gets you thrown in jail for a few years.
    if you ask me, there's nothing wrong with a 15 year old and an 18 year old having sex to begin with. it's not like consenting sex (with someone only 3 year older than you) is some traumatic experience that's going to scar you for life. priorities people. good grief!

    takin advantage of someone who brain is less formed then your for you own sexual pleasure is better than taking items from someone? One affects your property the other affects the persons sexual development.

  5. #35
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    As a disclaimer. I am not, personally, as hold-fast to rules as most people are. I'm neither saying I agree with the current policies in Florida nor am I a fan of laws being used outside of their intended purposes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I find it funny how many consider a 15 year old and 18 year old having sex a bigger deal than someone robbing a gas station. the former loses you all your job prospects and brands you a creepy sexual deviant while the latter just gets you thrown in jail for a few years.
    if you ask me, there's nothing wrong with a 15 year old and an 18 year old having sex to begin with. it's not like consenting sex (with someone only 3 year older than you) is some traumatic experience that's going to scar you for life. priorities people. good grief!
    I don't think there is anything wrong with two men having sex, but homosexuals have to repress and hide themselves from others in order to protect each other from laws, bigots, and other quite serious life-ruining events. What I am saying is, there's been a fatal flaw in these protect the teenager laws for a long time, something parents have been abusing to ruin young males' lives because they simply don't like or agree with the male's choice. I don't see why people are only now getting all upset and throwing a fit just because it is a woman. It seems like the only people upset about this before this incident were the parents of the guys who got their lives ruined by an angry parent or a young girl that didn't like the guy after a few dates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    When I read the actual article rather than just speculating, it sounds like the "18 year old" and the "15 year old" were actually involved before the 18 year old turned 18. They were actually a thing. And the parents of the 15 year old seemed accepting.
    But this has happened to males before too.. time and time again. I can't think of any girls I know of that were forced to register as sex offenders for relationships in high school, but I knew a few guys that got the shaft from the age of consent laws. (The part where the same-sex thing comes in I think is clearly the lack of consideration of this aspect.. I've known guys who went to court because the mothers were all 'Finally! I have something to get back at you with you turned 17!!' but the age of the relationship was taken into consideration.)

    Then the girl turned 18, and after a few months, suddenly the parents of the 15 year old flipped a switch and pressed charges and the issue enough to get this girl thrown out of school shortly before graduation. Nice. As my portion of speculating, it certainly sounds as if the parents did not approve, then realized they could use the law to end things.
    An unfortunate thing that happens a ton of the time.

    So fine. Technically they're breaking the law, but seriously? I mean, what does this mean -- that as soon as a kid turns 18 in high school, he or she has to break up with their SO because now they can be accused of sexual assault, regardless of how long they've been dating? My own son just turned 18 and he's dating a 16 year old; I better advise him one more time, to either break up with her or make sure they DON'T do anything physical.
    This isn't just a problem within schools. The military has a similar issue. Once you start a relationship with someone of a higher rank, you have 1 year to marry or break up by army standards. Now, does everyone follow this rule? No. But do you get a cute exception if you're discovered? No. I don't agree with every aspect of the law, but those laws are there to protect young girls and boys from being coerced into something they may not want to do when introspecting.

    If the relationship was strong, I'd probably have had a serious talk with my daughter about being more professional at school to protect herself and her girlfriend. We cannot pretend there are not bigots and closed minded people that will attempt to use laws against people just for the sake of being upset and angry. And, boringly enough, being homosexual is *still* a big deal. It isn't unwise to protect yourself in times of change and turmoil. People are still being shot for simply being gay.

    Not to say that this girl should just be a complete cold-hearted I-just-protect-myself person.. but would it really have been such a big deal to sit down with the parents of the other girl and discuss things when she turned 18? *Many* parents do not want their 15 year old engaging in sex of any kinds, homo or hetero. Even if she didn't see an attitude shift at all... Maybe the parents consented at first, but when she turned 18 there should have been a consideration to ask them again about the topic. Adult things like sex sort of need more adult-like protocols.

    I find most of the time, communication never occurs, and it makes things into a bigger deal than it needs to be.

    It sounds to me more like the parents of the 15 year old are exploiting the law to screw over their daughter's girlfriend because they don't approve of the relationship. And the law in this case seems very easily exploitable, it's in that "weird space" where it's not like a new adult is looking for younger people to prey on, it's a continuing relationship where someone turned 18 and what was okay on Tuesday now can go on your permanent record as of Wednesday. I understand the reasons for the law, but that just is kind of crazy.
    Completely agreed on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Um what. This is insane. I don't think boys should be prosecuted either. I am a fan of the "three year rule" I don't know if its only active in some states, but it means if you've reached the age of consent and your partner is no more than three years older then it's still legal.
    I would take it a step further and say that if you started the relationship while you both were in high school that you ought to be protected until the relationship ends.. but again, I think the parents of the minor have 100% of the control. There are NO protection measures in place for the young adults, and that's sad. The only protection they really have currently is when judges are nice to them.

    I would be like "Oh yeah she's 23 and that girl is only 15." Or "Oh yeah she's 18 and that girl is only 13." Then okay, sure. Prosecute.
    But year-gap laws don't write well. It's really hard to determine things like that and time lines get gray and fuzzy. It's a bit more practical to have a cut-off age-of-consent area, even if it is inconvenient for a couple of years for some couples.

    People are dumb, I can't believe they'd try to ruin any 18 year olds life over something like this.
    I definitely agree that the parents of the 15 year old were not at all clear with their intentions for their daughter and went about things in a highly unprofessional manner.

    All I'm pointing out is.. plenty of dudes have had to register wrongly as sex offenders, and the only reason people are upset as a whole is because she's cute and gay. If it was an ugly 18 year old dude in a relationship with a cute 15 year old girl I don't think this would have made news, which is unfortunate... but seriously, if 17-18 year olds can't figure out by now that they really do need to protect themselves then they'll just keep driving off the cliff with the other cars.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    But this has happened to males before too.. time and time again. I can't think of any girls I know of that were forced to register as sex offenders for relationships in high school, but I knew a few guys that got the shaft from the age of consent laws. (The part where the same-sex thing comes in I think is clearly the lack of consideration of this aspect.. I've known guys who went to court because the mothers were all 'Finally! I have something to get back at you with you turned 17!!' but the age of the relationship was taken into consideration.)
    Why did you use the word "but"? I think I even mentioned how ridiculous is that my 18 year old son could fall prey to such laws. We're not really in disagreement, I think it's got the same problem regardless of gender.

    This isn't just a problem within schools. The military has a similar issue. Once you start a relationship with someone of a higher rank, you have 1 year to marry or break up by army standards.
    Weird. I never knew that.

    Now, does everyone follow this rule? No. But do you get a cute exception if you're discovered? No. I don't agree with every aspect of the law, but those laws are there to protect young girls and boys from being coerced into something they may not want to do when introspecting.

    If the relationship was strong, I'd probably have had a serious talk with my daughter about being more professional at school to protect herself and her girlfriend. We cannot pretend there are not bigots and closed minded people that will attempt to use laws against people just for the sake of being upset and angry. And, boringly enough, being homosexual is *still* a big deal. It isn't unwise to protect yourself in times of change and turmoil. People are still being shot for simply being gay.

    Not to say that this girl should just be a complete cold-hearted I-just-protect-myself person.. but would it really have been such a big deal to sit down with the parents of the other girl and discuss things when she turned 18? *Many* parents do not want their 15 year old engaging in sex of any kinds, homo or hetero. Even if she didn't see an attitude shift at all... Maybe the parents consented at first, but when she turned 18 there should have been a consideration to ask them again about the topic. Adult things like sex sort of need more adult-like protocols.
    I can't comment further on it because I don't know the specific circumstances of the relationships between each family and what they did or did not do before charges were filed, and there's not much point in spending lots of time delineating arguments based on potentially faulty data. There's a lot of preemptory speculation in this thread, whereas I'd rather have it actually be relevant to the situation under discussion.
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  7. #37
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    I can't believe so many people hve no problem with these age differences. Your body is physically ready for sex at puberty but I went through puberty at eleven an thereis no way I could have made an informed decision about sexuality. The laws are there to protect people who haven't developed the faculties to protect themselves. To suggest that there is no mental difference between a fifteen year old and an 18 year old I think is dishonest.

  8. #38
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    takin advantage of someone who brain is less formed then your for you own sexual pleasure is better than taking items from someone? One affects your property the other affects the persons sexual development.
    I didn't read the article. was anyone taken advantage of? if so, that changes my opinion, but an 18 year old having sex with a 15 year old is a perfectly natural age gap.

    yes, there are mental differences between 15 and 18 but....you're point. 18 year olds and 15 year olds have been having sex for thousands of years without much problems. chemistry is chemistry. two people don't need to be mentally the same to have sex (hell, this is tame. 25+ year old guys marrying 15-17 year old girls was the norm up until maybe 100 years ago). yes, in any relationship, there is potential for abuse and manipulation, but that doesn't mean it's always there.
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  9. #39
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    @kyuuei
    I don't think there is anything wrong with two men having sex, but homosexuals have to repress and hide themselves from others in order to protect each other from laws, bigots, and other quite serious life-ruining events. What I am saying is, there's been a fatal flaw in these protect the teenager laws for a long time, something parents have been abusing to ruin young males' lives because they simply don't like or agree with the male's choice. I don't see why people are only now getting all upset and throwing a fit just because it is a woman. It seems like the only people upset about this before this incident were the parents of the guys who got their lives ruined by an angry parent or a young girl that didn't like the guy after a few dates.
    this is all too true
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  10. #40
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Why did you use the word "but"? I think I even mentioned how ridiculous is that my 18 year old son could fall prey to such laws. We're not really in disagreement, I think it's got the same problem regardless of gender.
    Habit of mine, unintended to be a counter argument.

    Weird. I never knew that.
    It is one of those lovely things they just don't tell you when you enlist--like how you could technically be charged for getting a sun burn via damage to government property, or how everything but missionary sex is illegal. They aren't well known, or well enforced (though I'd argue the marry-or-break-up one is more enforced than many other, perfectly legitimate, laws) but they exist.

    Right now, it's a big controversy because we have a zero-tolerance policy on drinking and sex in the army. If you drink, at all, you are NOT able to give consent. So, a bunch of army dudes out drinking, joking, smoking.. some girl wants a quick lawsuit? Just sleep with an army dude while he's drunk, and then the next day say he raped you because you couldn't give consent. There is literally almost nothing he can do because our policy is "Don't drink if you want to have sex."

    I can't comment further on it because I don't know the specific circumstances of the relationships between each family and what they did or did not do before charges were filed, and there's not much point in spending lots of time delineating arguments based on potentially faulty data. There's a lot of preemptory speculation in this thread, whereas I'd rather have it actually be relevant to the situation under discussion.
    And this really is what the media is telling us--there is another side where the picture is painted to make this girl seem like she's preying on the 15 year old, otherwise she wouldn't have been arrested in the first place. But, in my experience, a lot of people who want to press charges on other people, go crazy and assume the motivations of others.. if they had bothered to have enough bravery to just say to the person directly what they think and feel, that many situations would be diffused.

    I think there really ought to be at least something in the laws that states that the parents of the children have to at least communicate with each other before charges can be filed. At least give the parents of the young adult an outlet of some sort--some kind of safety net to help fix things and protect their own children. Because, as it states right now, if a 15 year old white girl was dating/having relations with an 18 year old black male, that girl's parents could be total bigots and get away with ruining that kid's life solely on the fact that they think it is immoral for a white and black person to date. There is no discretion.

    The laws are there to protect undeveloped children (proven by science--the brain doesn't develop entirely until mid 20s) from all kinds of situations... but there is no laws defending young adults (which suffer from the same impulsive habits and mentalities) from anger, wrath, hate, etc. There is no where where the 15 year old girl can say, "Look, I consented. I know I technically can't, but I did." It simply doesn't matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I can't believe so many people hve no problem with these age differences. Your body is physically ready for sex at puberty but I went through puberty at eleven an thereis no way I could have made an informed decision about sexuality. The laws are there to protect people who haven't developed the faculties to protect themselves. To suggest that there is no mental difference between a fifteen year old and an 18 year old I think is dishonest.
    There definitely is, and that is why age of consent is there in the first place. There is a difference, almost anyone would agree with that in a practical sense, and science is tending to back it. But there is a gray area in our society where children (and I am calling them children) are having sex, both sides before the age of consent. It's like this math equation--two negatives make a positive. The fact that religion is taken out of the equation so there is less stigma about morally being against sex is adding to it too, though to a lesser extent. So we're starting to see these really awful gray lines where kids start out with sex, then have to revert back to "I have to wait until my friends are all my age" and it really isn't working out well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I didn't read the article. was anyone taken advantage of? if so, that changes my opinion, but an 18 year old having sex with a 15 year old is a perfectly natural age gap.

    yes, there are mental differences between 15 and 18 but....you're point. 18 year olds and 15 year olds have been having sex for thousands of years without much problems. chemistry is chemistry. two people don't need to be mentally the same to have sex (hell, this is tame. 25+ year old guys marrying 15-17 year old girls was the norm up until maybe 100 years ago). yes, in any relationship, there is potential for abuse and manipulation, but that doesn't mean it's always there.
    I wouldn't say without much problems at all. I would say quite the opposite--we see with more education, higher health levels, and living in social situations where one doesn't have to worry about survival are putting young marriages and pregnancies WAY further into the timeline than those who are poorer and do struggle. The data is suggesting that just because they're doing it does not mean it should be done.. lacking abuse or not.

    And really.. who knew *exactly* who they were at the age of 15 or 18? Most people are just really getting a feel for themselves and what they want out of life.. there are people well into their 20s who still don't have these answers. Is sex really what people ought to be focusing on at those ages?
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