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  1. #141
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Having a separate way to handle the criminal and social service ends of things seems like it could have advantages and disadvantages.

    You're right about the image thing. I suppose educating kids on the possible consequences only really helps so much. They're kids: they don't listen. It's hard to know how to address the problem. The consequences are pretty far-reaching for a relatively innocent act. Of course, life is like that more often than not. Nothing fair about it.
    I agree that it does but it means that were no legal or criminal justice satisfaction or prosecution is possible that there's still a response, I think that's the thinking behind it.

    Well in the UK at least the registration process has a range of strings attached and people can be prohibited from owning or using phones or technology if the risk can be demonstrated to be high and persistent, that's to the best of my knowledge, there's still a lot of weight given to people protecting themselves, which sometimes seems lousy when I really, really wouldnt expect the average member of the population to be wary to the extent necessary, these sorts of predatory individuals fool highly skilled professionals, sometimes that's their whole motivation, but objectively its the only real social response.

    Its different when its kids or the problem manifests itself that early in life but it happens.

  2. #142
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Um what. This is insane. I don't think boys should be prosecuted either. I am a fan of the "three year rule" I don't know if its only active in some states, but it means if you've reached the age of consent and your partner is no more than three years older then it's still legal.

    They're both still in high school, amirite?

    I would be like "Oh yeah she's 23 and that girl is only 15." Or "Oh yeah she's 18 and that girl is only 13." Then okay, sure. Prosecute.

    I didn't even know that 18 year olds could get in trouble for being with 15 year olds. Also the part about her being 17 at the beginning of the relationship seems like there's actually less than three years between them.

    Not exactly Lolita.

    People are dumb, I can't believe they'd try to ruin any 18 year olds life over something like this.
    This is how I feel. Three year age difference? Good grief. That is completely healthy. We live in a weird society.

    The moment someone turns 21 they can date a 55 year-old even if their frontal lobe hasn't finished developing. Society has a bizarre sense of ethics.
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  3. #143
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Please stay on topic.

    We're discussing FL and the United States, and in the United States, the legal age is 18 -- unless you happen to be in a state that permits 17 year olds to vote in a primary as long as they turn 18 before the election.

    What governments do in other countries has no bearing on the case we are actually discussing in this thread. Your going on a scree about how the government is pandering to teens in some other countries is actually off topic.
    I am not discussing foreign countries. As you can see in my post, I am perfectly aware the age of majority is 18 in Florida. In Alabama, Mississippi, D.C and Puerto Rico it is higher. What I was saying was that the age of majority in your Florida has not always been 18. It has gone down, as it indeed has in most places. That is because the politicians wanted to have the minors' votes! You cannot deny the people who are 18 were once minors in America, and in some states they are still minors. What I was saying is the 18 year-old people have not undergone any change; only the law has. The changed law does not affect the children, it affects the society. The changed law does not make the minors adults. In that standpoint, they are still minors. Analogy: The law in Nazi Germany stated the Jews were sub-human. Did the Nazi laws change the Jews? Did the Nazi laws make them sub-human?

  4. #144
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    I am not discussing foreign countries. As you can see in my post, I am perfectly aware the age of majority is 18 in Florida. In Alabama, Mississippi, D.C and Puerto Rico it is higher. What I was saying was that the age of majority in your Florida has not always been 18. It has gone down, as it indeed has in most places. That is because the politicians wanted to have the minors' votes! You cannot deny the people who are 18 were once minors in America, and in some states they are still minors. What I was saying is the 18 year-old people have not undergone any change; only the law has. The changed law does not affect the children, it affects the society. The changed law does not make the minors adults. In that standpoint, they are still minors. Analogy: The law in Nazi Germany stated the Jews were sub-human. Did the Nazi laws change the Jews? Did the Nazi laws make them sub-human?
    I see what you're trying to say here now. I do think it is crazy that society changes laws to suit them in one area, and then the latent effects of those changes shows up in completely different areas.

    But the truth is, no one complained about this aspect (it seems) except for the parents of boys that are getting caught up in these gray areas of the law. Now that it is a girl, we're starting to see the flaws in the law suddenly? Are we really so sexist in the world? I really hope the girl gets charged just so that people will push to fix things for good instead of trying to just pretend things don't effect them.
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  5. #145
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I see what you're trying to say here now. I do think it is crazy that society changes laws to suit them in one area, and then the latent effects of those changes shows up in completely different areas.

    But the truth is, no one complained about this aspect (it seems) except for the parents of boys that are getting caught up in these gray areas of the law. Now that it is a girl, we're starting to see the flaws in the law suddenly? Are we really so sexist in the world? I really hope the girl gets charged just so that people will push to fix things for good instead of trying to just pretend things don't effect them.
    Thank you kyuuei. I am happy you see what I was trying to say. But I am appalled you hope the girl gets charged. I think it is cruel and unnecessary. My heart goes out to the girl. I do not think it is different if it were a boy. I do not think the gender is relevant at all. You said nobody cared when it was only the boys who got busted. I did care. Boy or girl, it is a grossly unfair law.

    These girls played basketball together. Children who are in the same age group tend to play together! Now some people say the age difference was actually four years- as if that one year changed anything. This girl does not deserve to be registered as a sex offender. It would ruin her life. If she is registered as a sex offender, it is a false testimony against her. She is just a normal girl. It is quite obvious the other girl does not see herself as a victim. And if it is so, the older girl has not done anything worth mentioning.

  6. #146
    Senior Member GinKuusouka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Thank you kyuuei. I am happy you see what I was trying to say. But I am appalled you hope the girl gets charged. I think it is cruel and unnecessary. My heart goes out to the girl. I do not think it is different if it were a boy. I do not think the gender is relevant at all. You said nobody cared when it was only the boys who got busted. I did care. Boy or girl, it is a grossly unfair law.

    These girls played basketball together. Children who are in the same age group tend to play together! Now some people say the age difference was actually four years- as if that one year changed anything. This girl does not deserve to be registered as a sex offender. It would ruin her life. If she is registered as a sex offender, it is a false testimony against her. She is just a normal girl. It is quite obvious the other girl does not see herself as a victim. And if it is so, the older girl has not done anything worth mentioning.
    I agree Wildcat. From what I read up on, the parents of the younger girl never asked the 18-year-old to stop seeing their daughter. Which, to me, would have been the more mature way to handle the situation. Instead, they waited until the older girl was no longer a minor and brought charges against her. That, to me, is heartless. Not only against the 18-year-old, but against their own daughter as well. Telling her that they don't trust the decisions that she's made. In this case, what harm was truly being caused? Their relationship was consensual. And, if the parents didn't like it, why not respectfully ask the older girl to stop seeing their daughter instead of resorting to this?
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  7. #147
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GinKuusouka View Post
    I agree Wildcat. From what I read up on, the parents of the younger girl never asked the 18-year-old to stop seeing their daughter. Which, to me, would have been the more mature way to handle the situation. Instead, they waited until the older girl was no longer a minor and brought charges against her. That, to me, is heartless. Not only against the 18-year-old, but against their own daughter as well. Telling her that they don't trust the decisions that she's made. In this case, what harm was truly being caused? Their relationship was consensual. And, if the parents didn't like it, why not respectfully ask the older girl to stop seeing their daughter instead of resorting to this?
    Some of the news stories say they did ask the older girl to back off, FWIW, and that she not only didn't back off, but let the younger girl stay at her house without her parents knowledge or consent. The parents freaked out, thinking someone had taken their daughter from her room. I think that might have been the last straw, but I don't know that for sure.
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  8. #148
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Thank you kyuuei. I am happy you see what I was trying to say. But I am appalled you hope the girl gets charged. I think it is cruel and unnecessary. My heart goes out to the girl. I do not think it is different if it were a boy. I do not think the gender is relevant at all. You said nobody cared when it was only the boys who got busted. I did care. Boy or girl, it is a grossly unfair law.
    Theoretically, I wish the same. What I mean is--no one has bothered to actively change the law for these boys. So, even though I personally care, I still hope the law continues to function without a bias for gender. Either it is good enough for girls and boys to be charged, or we realize there is a flaw and fix the core of the problem and not adjust it to suit our emotional needs.
    Since this has been going on for years and years without anyone *really* desiring a fix besides the mothers of sons fallen to this law, I am saying that I do hope the girl gets charged. Sometimes people need a wake up call, and on top of that the girl turned down a sentence that was perfectly acceptable considering males do not typically get off so easily.

    Does it suck to tell someone "Hey, I know you care about this person, but now it's illegal to engage in sexual activity with them."? Yes. Should that be a dealbreaker for a relationship? No. But both sides need to be mature enough to know the potential consequences of their actions and how much influence parents have in the lives of minors. It is a lot. And while America has not always had strict definitions in terms of what constitutes children and adults, we're trying to change that for the safety of children.

    (Completely unrelated, I was watching a news broadcast where a girl was suspended even though she had straight A's because she missed too many days of school because she needed to work to help her parents survive. The child labor laws are there to protect her, and her family is angry that they're being put to use whether the girl has good grades or not.)
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  9. #149
    Senior Member Chiharu's Avatar
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    If they're both still in high school, or the age difference is three years or smaller, the older party should not be prosecuted. This is such a dumb rule. Honestly.
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  10. #150
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Look. My daughter's 13, so I'm far from unbiased on this issue. But she's still going to be 13 for the first month or so when she starts HS this fall and if any 18yo senior macked on her, boy or girl, I would consider that predatory given the developmental differences between them, and I would be glad if they got in trouble for it. That wouldn't change on her 14th birthday, and that's just reality. There is a HUGE developmental difference between 13/14 and 17/18. Four years IS a big deal, at this specific time in life. Nobody has presented any convincing argument that would make me consider changing my mind yet.

    Honestly I think it's a little crazy that we corral all our teenagers into the same building for 7-8 hours a day but nobody asked me, and there aren't a lot of alternatives here that don't cost thousands of dollars we'd rather save for college, so we're stuck with the system.

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