User Tag List

First 3456 Last

Results 41 to 50 of 52

  1. #41
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    192

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    screw ideology, let's think about what's real here:

    1. we have more kids to adopt than families to adopt them. expanding the adoptive parent pool is going to provide more people with loving families and the economical support to succeed in life and have a higher chance of becoming contributing members of society. research has shown positive results for the child's mental health, and even if you have your doubts, i have yet to have seen anyone to make any reasonable argument that temporary fostercare or outright not being adopted is a better alternative.

    2. what has being significant to the mental health of the child, however, is that the parents are indeed married, and right now marriage is crumbling, people are doing it less and less and divorce rates aren't looking good, because with marriage, divorce and custody laws throughout the western world being an ill-adapted fucking mess that somehow seemingly discriminates against everyone one way or another, it is no longer clear to people that marriage is a good idea. legalizing gay marriage & forcing courts to go into trials where sexual discrimination is no longer a factor, creating new precedents and reevaluating old ones, is probably the best thing one can do to save the institution of marriage from kicking itself in the ass. yes, the legal consequences & cultural understanding of marriage will change over time, and look around you - it isn't doing so well, it fucking needs changing.



    as long as is a government institution, anything it does would be meddling - not allowing gay marriage is also meddling, allowing it is meddling, recognizing it for tax cuts, immigration policies, adoption policies, healthcare benefits... all of that is meddling. you can't just pick a side that wants to force things one way and complain that forcing it another way is is wrong simply because it is forceful, beyond the hypocrisy, that's like two bloody drunks arguing who should drive. if anything, lifting the constraints of marriage actually allow more freedom for the individual, which reduces legal enforcement.


    can you imagine the savings on rocket fuel?

    really though - nature is the nature of things - nature is what nature does. if it wasn't natural it wouldn't be happening and this discussion wouldn't exist. its not really that it's unnatural, it's just that it makes people uncomfortable. and you know what the guy who got mugged by someone because that someone didn't have a supporting family to do better in life thinks about your discomfort? or the child whose father left because that father had no role model of family? well, probably nothing because it's not an obvious connection, but frankly one got hurt more than the other.

    on utility basis alone, gay couples are useful to us as a society, and enough of them want to be used to make this an issue making it a win win situation, and we are trying to stop that because it makes people feel uncomfortable? if you want to illegalize discomfort how about starting with something a bit more substantial, like itchy t-shirt tags and ikea furniture.
    Good post. Makes sense to me.

  2. #42
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    748 sx/so
    Posts
    1,489

    Default

    mm something like patriarchial organisation of society (present in the 3 monotheistic religions: christianity, judaism, islam) -> idea of female possession -> monogamy (valid if used to control women, who'd be killed if betrayed husband, although not the opposite)

    on another note, i think polyamory should be added to the LGBT alphabet soup, and people should be allow to marry in 3s and more. but that's another issue from allowing marriage between 2 people regardless of sex, which is what is in discussion in society at this moment. one step at a time...

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I don't understand how Christians arrived at monogamy, though. Polygamy is pretty prevalent in the OT, for sure, among the Israelites. How did marriage come to be defined as being between "one man and one woman", then? I have the feeling that this is something that isn't in the bible at all, and was added later by St. Augustine or someone like that (like so much else).

  3. #43
    Senior Member Scheherezade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    156

    Default

    @Mane .. what s real here is that at some point those gay couples will want to divorce, same as the others, how about that for a twist?
    the institution of marriage nowadays is like you said, not very strong

  4. #44
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    192

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post

    on another note, i think polyamory should be added to the LGBT alphabet soup, and people should be allow to marry in 3s and more. but that's another issue from allowing marriage between 2 people regardless of sex, which is what is in discussion in society at this moment. one step at a time...
    Yes, that's the logical next step. And women should be allowed to marry more than one man/woman if they want to too, not just the other way around. Plus this way, if there is a divorce, children still have a family.

  5. #45
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,522

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Lark, I made two fundamentally non-totalitarian statements in that post. I said everybody should be given a choice, and I suggested that marriage be removed from the concern of the government altogether. To say that marriage (including it's definition) should be the legal domain of the government, and that the government should decide what citizen can and can't marry, is more totalitarian.
    The force of law is required for personal commitments to be honored, regarding things like inheritance, child custody, family benefits, acknowledgment of next-of-kin status in emergencies, etc. For this reason, the government does must concern itself with the legal aspects of domestic relationships. Anything else is indeed beyond their purvey.

    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    on another note, i think polyamory should be added to the LGBT alphabet soup, and people should be allow to marry in 3s and more. but that's another issue from allowing marriage between 2 people regardless of sex, which is what is in discussion in society at this moment. one step at a time...
    What I wrote as well. Polyamory raises the prospect of a person claiming multiple (adult) beneficiaries on health insurance, which would obviously cost the insurer more than the current limit of one spouse. This is the financial consideration I had in mind, and there are probably more. I actually know a polyamorous family addressing some of these concerns. Two of the three parents have employer-based insurance, and the third is named as "spouse" on one of these.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #46
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    3,532

    Default

    In the US we tried "separate but equal," which is pretty much what calling same-sex marriages "civil unions" is trying to be. It didn't work. It wasn't equality. We (some of us, at least) learned from that bit of history and don't care to repeat it.

    To continue with that comparison, black kids and white kids now go to the same schools. This is in no way saying that black people should be white or white people should be black... and that idea is ludicrous since no one can change their race. No more can they change their sexual orientation. No one's saying we should all be the same, just that we should all be equal in the eyes of the law.
    Masquerading as a normal person day after day is exhausting.

    My blog:
    TypeC: Adventures of an Introvert
    Wordpress: http://introvertadventures.wordpress.com/

  7. #47
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,522

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquarelle View Post
    To continue with that comparison, black kids and white kids now go to the same schools. This is in no way saying that black people should be white or white people should be black... and that idea is ludicrous since no one can change their race. No more can they change their sexual orientation. No one's saying we should all be the same, just that we should all be equal in the eyes of the law.
    Come to think of it, isn't that the definition of "natural" - occurring spontaneously in nature? It is no more unnatural to be gay than it is to be black, and no more contagious.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #48
    Society
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Come to think of it, isn't that the definition of "natural" - occurring spontaneously in nature? It is no more unnatural to be gay than it is to be black, and no more contagious.
    oh, the nature vs. nurture debate for homosexuality? i don't get that, it seems to me to be a stupid argument where everyone's wrong. you have people trying to argue that it's a choice and you have people trying to argue that it isn't.... but taking a step back:

    hypothetically, let's say that it was as a matter of fact a result of nurture. so what? we have studies showing many behaviors that are in fact nurture - for example infant-parent relations correlates to later attachment styles - but by the time you are an adult those are pretty much set, your mind has already being shaped by them. to the extent that your brain is malleable you might be able to over come them, just like you can potentially overcome or even avoid obesity despite having genetic tendencies towards it. one is nurture and one is nature, but by the time you are shaped by either, that doesn't make either one inherently more malleable than the other.
    now, let's take it a step further - let's say homosexuality was in fact a choice one could change at any moment. so what? we have had enough openly gay people throughout history to know its harmless, no direct negative consequences beyond social implications depending on the society around them, no gate to oblivion opening, no alien race or deity has so far come to attack humanity for breaking their sexual code of conduct. so what does it matter if people make harmless choices? we have today the technology to change our hair color to whatever we damn please, does that mean we should tell gingers that if they want life insurance they need to go brunette?

  9. #49

  10. #50
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,128

    Default


Similar Threads

  1. [INFJ] INFJs how do you control yourself from jumping to conclusions?
    By Desert Flower in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 09-17-2008, 06:35 PM
  2. Switching From ENTP To INFP?
    By Mondo in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 09-08-2008, 12:25 PM
  3. [MBTItm] Can you move from J to P?
    By Cindyrella in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 10-30-2007, 10:08 PM
  4. How to Go from Introvert to Extrovert
    By Usehername in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 06-30-2007, 12:43 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO