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  1. #31
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Why do I see arguments against gay marriage based on religious tradition, but no arguments in favor of polygamy?
    Well, polygamy is ordained by Allah in the Koran, and practised by faithful muslims throughout the world for more than a thousand years.

  2. #32
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Well, polygamy is ordained by Allah in the Koran, and practised by faithful muslims throughout the world for more than a thousand years.
    It was practiced in many parts of the world well before the advent of Mohammed. It is still practiced to this day by subsets of the Mormon tradition, who claim to be Christian. The Muslim rule about a man being allowed up to four wives was actually a limitation, since prior to that, men often had many more. Frequent warring reduced the male population significantly, so there was some logic in this for a society that provided few opportunities for independent women.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #33
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Well, polygamy is ordained by Allah in the Koran, and practised by faithful muslims throughout the world for more than a thousand years.
    I don't understand how Christians arrived at monogamy, though. Polygamy is pretty prevalent in the OT, for sure, among the Israelites. How did marriage come to be defined as being between "one man and one woman", then? I have the feeling that this is something that isn't in the bible at all, and was added later by St. Augustine or someone like that (like so much else).
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  4. #34
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I have the feeling that this is something that isn't in the bible at all, and was added later by St. Augustine or someone like that (like so much else).
    Exactly: when there is something odd or wrong within Western Christianity, always blame Tertullian and St. Augustine, the two partners in crime...
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  5. #35
    Senior Member Scheherezade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I said everybody should be given a choice, and I suggested that marriage be removed from the concern of the government altogether.
    marriage cannot be removed from the concern of the government as birth rate and mortality are obviously important social and political issues, their importance crossing over the gay/heterosexual border

  6. #36
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scheherezade View Post
    marriage cannot be removed from the concern of the government as birth rate and mortality are obviously important social and political issues, their importance crossing over the gay/heterosexual border
    Birth rate and mortality? Not exactly.

    But who inherits the money: yes, for sure!
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  7. #37
    Senior Member Scheherezade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Well, they could then direct their attention to unemployment, taxation, internet privacy, terrorism, and a host of other current issues. Perhaps they could even solve one or two.
    Coriolis makes a fair point

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Birth rate and mortality? Not exactly.

    But who inherits the money: yes, for sure!
    to better explain, please see this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_rate
    it has nothing to do with who inherits the money, it has to do with who "will make" money

  8. #38
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    screw ideology, let's think about what's real here:

    1. we have more kids to adopt than families to adopt them. expanding the adoptive parent pool is going to provide more people with loving families and the economical support to succeed in life and have a higher chance of becoming contributing members of society. research has shown positive results for the child's mental health, and even if you have your doubts, i have yet to have seen anyone to make any reasonable argument that temporary fostercare or outright not being adopted is a better alternative.

    2. what has being significant to the mental health of the child, however, is that the parents are indeed married, and right now marriage is crumbling, people are doing it less and less and divorce rates aren't looking good, because with marriage, divorce and custody laws throughout the western world being an ill-adapted fucking mess that somehow seemingly discriminates against everyone one way or another, it is no longer clear to people that marriage is a good idea. legalizing gay marriage & forcing courts to go into trials where sexual discrimination is no longer a factor, creating new precedents and reevaluating old ones, is probably the best thing one can do to save the institution of marriage from kicking itself in the ass. yes, the legal consequences & cultural understanding of marriage will change over time, and look around you - it isn't doing so well, it fucking needs changing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont believe that government should be able to capraciously meddle with whatever it feels like MP and to be honest since I thought you werent an big fan of totalitarianism I'd have suspected you to feel the same way, although given that marriage is one of those fundamental cornerstones of society its not something that government can safely ignore either, and I'd have thought you'd recognise that too.
    as long as is a government institution, anything it does would be meddling - not allowing gay marriage is also meddling, allowing it is meddling, recognizing it for tax cuts, immigration policies, adoption policies, healthcare benefits... all of that is meddling. you can't just pick a side that wants to force things one way and complain that forcing it another way is is wrong simply because it is forceful, beyond the hypocrisy, that's like two bloody drunks arguing who should drive. if anything, lifting the constraints of marriage actually allow more freedom for the individual, which reduces legal enforcement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I cant wait for them to follow it with some legislation on gravity.
    can you imagine the savings on rocket fuel?

    really though - nature is the nature of things - nature is what nature does. if it wasn't natural it wouldn't be happening and this discussion wouldn't exist. its not really that it's unnatural, it's just that it makes people uncomfortable. and you know what the guy who got mugged by someone because that someone didn't have a supporting family to do better in life thinks about your discomfort? or the child whose father left because that father had no role model of family? well, probably nothing because it's not an obvious connection, but frankly one got hurt more than the other.

    on utility basis alone, gay couples are useful to us as a society, and enough of them want to be used to make this an issue making it a win win situation, and we are trying to stop that because it makes people feel uncomfortable? if you want to illegalize discomfort how about starting with something a bit more substantial, like itchy t-shirt tags and ikea furniture.

  9. #39
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    I had problems understanding the OP, but then I realized why.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Or does it make sense to argue that homosexuality and heterosexuality are really just the same when homosexuals prefer partners of the same sex and heterosexuals prefer partners of the opposite sex? Perhaps, you know, they really are not the same thing and that's alright?
    I thought the bolded was common sense. No?

    I mean, love is love.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    I had problems understanding the OP, but then I realized why.


    I thought the bolded was common sense. No?

    I mean, love is love.
    Lol it isn't just you; I didn't understand what the OP's point was either! It makes no sense.

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