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  1. #11
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    Why does John Stewart even have a show? He's not funny. At least Colbert has that going for him. These scandals don't surprise me in the least. It will be interesting to find out what knowledge the Obama administration had of these events, if any. I doubt the president was in the dark. If Bush was in office, he would undoubtedly be the scapegoat of all of this; and I'm not even defending his presidency - just commenting on how everything that happened during his terms were attributed to his failings as a leader.

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    beorn. frankly, no one cares. does anyone on this forum carE?
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasoline View Post
    beorn. frankly, no one cares. does anyone on this forum carE?
    Well if anyone else wants to out themselves as a total partisan hack they're more than welcome to do that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Well if anyone else wants to out themselves as a total partisan hack they're more than welcome to do that.
    What am I supposed to do with this information? It's not like I have any good reason to think Republicans would be cleaner.
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    Pretty much. Partisan hackery is not exclusive to Republicans or Democrats. If Mitt Romney had won, like God told Pat Robertson, the situation would be reversed. You're not going to get intellectual honesty or transparency out of political discourse, I'm afraid. I suspect that's entirely against the point.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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    Quote Originally Posted by Moniker View Post
    Why does John Stewart even have a show? He's not funny. At least Colbert has that going for him. These scandals don't surprise me in the least. It will be interesting to find out what knowledge the Obama administration had of these events, if any. I doubt the president was in the dark. If Bush was in office, he would undoubtedly be the scapegoat of all of this; and I'm not even defending his presidency - just commenting on how everything that happened during his terms were attributed to his failings as a leader.
    Lol. Three things you'll always have with you -- death, debt, taxes, and the political circu.... FOUR. Four things!



    I think it's a little broad though to claim each administration indulges in the same level of duplicity in the same areas. They each have their own particular blind spots. And it's compounded by how aggressive the opposition is in trying to dig up dirt (I mean, what the hell was it with the birth certificate? A legitimate crisis of the administration? I think not.) It's hard sometimes to determine how legitimate a particular charge is.

    John Stewart is a commentator, btw, not necessarily a stand-up comedian. Although in the early days of the Daily Show, I still fondly recall Steve Carrell doing an undercover expose of the illicit curry trade, with unknowing food kitchens. That was just one of the funniest things I've ever seen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think it's a little broad though to claim each administration indulges in the same level of duplicity in the same areas. They each have their own particular blind spots. And it's compounded by how aggressive the opposition is in trying to dig up dirt (I mean, what the hell was it with the birth certificate? A legitimate crisis of the administration? I think not.) It's hard sometimes to determine how legitimate a particular charge is.
    Well, I have my preferences to be sure, but it does seem like the list of "cardinal sins" for politicians to engage in isn't based entirely on actual principles or values, but is more of a reaction to what can be used against the opposition at the moment.

    The drone debate illustrates it perfectly. If it had been the Bush administration doing it, we would have heard about it endlessly from Democrats, and the Republicans would either be keeping silent or focusing the attention on something else. Since it's the Obama administration, the situation is the opposite. Making a claim that this "means" something about either Republicans or Democrats is baseless, because they both do it. Everyone knows politicians are tricksy, but they expect it only of the other side. I'm cool with politicians being tricksy, because I don't suspect you succeed in having power in this image-based PR-centric milieu by being honest, as much as I value that.

    It's less about any moral or rational principles, and more about winning one for your team. My Ti tends to really throw people off in political discussions, because they can't tell whose side I'm on. This is why I just kind of nod whenever my INFJ sister starts saying something about what dicks the Republicans are being, because I know that agreement is what's expected of me. I'm supposed to reinforce group solidarity, not logically deconstruct statements.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    The drone debate illustrates it perfectly. If it had been the Bush administration doing it, we would have heard about it endlessly from Democrats, and the Republicans would either be keeping silent or focusing the attention on something else. Since it's the Obama administration, the situation is the opposite. Making a claim that this "means" something about either Republicans or Democrats is baseless, because they both do it. Everyone knows politicians are tricksy, but they expect it only of the other side. I'm cool with politicians being tricksy, because I don't suspect you succeed in having power in this image-based PR-centric milieu by being honest, as much as I value that.
    i agreed on the drones topic (that's one that is interchangeable). And yeah, I don't think you succeed unless you know how to spin things AND know how to defend yourself and/or press an attack. The way Romney got cast, for example, enabled Obama to win, even if Romney didn't exactly fit that image. (Likewise, Kerry was misrepresented in 2004.) We aren't naive; politics just isn't a great setting for idealism.

    It's less about any moral or rational principles, and more about winning one for your team. My Ti tends to really throw people off in political discussions, because they can't tell whose side I'm on. This is why I just kind of nod whenever my INFJ sister starts saying something about what dicks the Republicans are being, because I know that agreement is what's expected of me. I'm supposed to reinforce group solidarity, not logically deconstruct statements.
    Well, now you're learning. There's a lot of settings where people don't want / won't listen to a logical deconstruction, they're looking for something else.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #19
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I have a political preference, but it has to do more with abstract ideologies, and not any delusion that one of the parties is not corrupt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I'm just kind of sick of both sides pissing away time and energy and resources in an attempt to derail each other, there are more important things to be dealing with, although I see a lot of pattern here in how the 'pubs basically pissed and moan when Hillary attempted to deal with health insurance in 1995 and then tried to make Clinton's second term about his affair instead of just giving it what attention it was due and then moving on. This isn't really about "fighting corruption," it's about trying to dig up whatever dirt you can on someone else and positioning yourself in a way to make them look worse.

    (Note: I never voted for Bill in any election, but I wished people would just grow up.)

    They're lucky we don't have capital punishment for crooked politicians, or they'd be buried out back behind the chemical sheds.
    Exactly.

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