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  1. #61
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    So italian is culture and not race. That seems really obvious to me.
    Obviousness is a claim belonging to the closed-minded.

    On the contrary, Italian is a social identity, as implied in the "random" article. It is also an ethnicity, and racially, it is White.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I'm not going to argue in favor of a random article from the internet. It's not the "Black manifesto" and I've already said I think it's making a false connection between race and culture.
    Random or not, the "social identity," or "ethnic identity," of individuals is linked to their cultural identities which give them a sense of purpose in life. Italians have been victimized for their ethnic identity. Have you ever heard of the term "wop"?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #62
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    White isn't a race, broskini. Caucasian is. Arabic people are also Caucasian. But Mediterraneans, Arabic peoples, and Slavs are different sub-groups of Caucasians that have judged each other for sharing different physical features than their ancestors.

    It's only in recent times that ideas like European Nationalism or White Nationalism have sprung up, like that the white people should stick together, or that European are valid cultures that don't have to be mowed down by multi-culturalism any more than China or Japan should be.

    The word Caucasian is used in the East, though, to describe people from a particular region, and most people in Europe divide themselves by nation or culture rather than saying they belong to the "Caucasian" race as Americans often do.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moniker View Post
    This thread has veered onto a more interesting subject and one that is an underlying issue of many alleged cases of "racism." The fact that one's decision to embrace a particular culture, set of beliefs, attitudes and behaviors is a choice and judging someone based on that choice is not a form of racism, in itself.
    Can you name a single individual who chose to embrace (live within and according to the customs of) a particular culture?

    There may be a few adults who have done so. But the vast majority of people are born to it, they didn't choose it. Ask anybody from India if they chose their particular caste.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #64
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    White isn't a race, broskini. Caucasian is. Arabic people are also Caucasian. But Mediterraneans, Arabic peoples, and Slavs are different sub-groups of Caucasians that have judged each other for sharing different physical features than their ancestors.

    It's only in recent times that ideas like European Nationalism or White Nationalism have sprung up, like that the white people should stick together, or that European are valid cultures that don't have to be mowed down by multi-culturalism any more than China or Japan should be.

    The word Caucasian is used in the East, though, to describe people from a particular region, and most people in Europe divide themselves by nation or culture rather than saying they belong to the "Caucasian" race as Americans often do.
    I think you've said that in every single thread involving racism. Lather, rinse, repeat...
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #65
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moniker View Post
    This thread has veered onto a more interesting subject and one that is an underlying issue of many alleged cases of "racism." The fact that one's decision to embrace a particular culture, set of beliefs, attitudes and behaviors is a choice and judging someone based on that choice is not a form of bigotry.

    I think it's a form of prejudice to ascribe ideas to something (style of dress, manner of speaking, musical/food preferences) when those ideas are not founded in the thing itself. For instance to assume that a person who has chosen to tattoo themselves is also involved in drugs or violence. I don't think it makes the stereotyping more acceptable. That being said I personally still have prejudices and if I seem someone who fits my idea of a "dangerous person" and I'm alone I will be more alert towards them, instinctively.


    I don't know how this idea relates to racism though since color isn't a choice.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I think you've said that in every single thread involving racism. Lather, rinse, repeat...
    Because a lot of people don't know it, Mal.

    You seem to think that Italians are "white" (while Sicilians are often tan, and the largest receivers of prejudice, more so than tall blue-eyed Italians in the North, oh enlightened one,).

  7. #67
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Obviousness is a claim belonging to the closed-minded.

    On the contrary, Italian is a social identity, as implied in the "random" article. It is also an ethnicity, and racially, it is White.



    Random or not, the "social identity," or "ethnic identity," of individuals is linked to their cultural identities which give them a sense of purpose in life. Italians have been victimized for their ethnic identity. Have you ever heard of the term "wop"?
    How has this article become racial dogma?

    The pont of contention was whether italian is a race which you have conceded it's not.


    The fact that you are treating this article as the Law for racial identity.....is just confusing to me. Even if it's that writers opinion or your opinion it doesn't make it the truth for all people.

    I never said italians didn't face discrimination............so yeah, irrelevant.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I think it's a form of prejudice to ascribe ideas to something (style of dress, manner of speaking, musical/food preferences) when those ideas are not founded in the thing itself. For instance to assume that a person who has chosen to tattoo themselves is also involved in drugs or violence. I don't think it makes the stereotyping more acceptable. That being said I personally still have prejudices and if I seem someone who fits my idea of a "dangerous person" and I'm alone I will be more alert towards them, instinctively.


    I don't know how this idea relates to racism though since color isn't a choice.
    It's perfectly human to generalize.

    A friend of mine came down with botulism after eating breakfast. It was the bacon. But forever after, he abhorred the very idea of eating eggs. Why? Even though he consciously and rationally knew it was the bacon, his subconscious mind identified the illness with eggs because his first impression was that it was the eggs.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #69
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    How has this article become racial dogma?

    The pont of contention was whether italian is a race which you have conceded it's not.


    The fact that you are treating this article as the Law for racial identity.....is just confusing to me. Even if it's that writers opinion or your opinion it doesn't make it the truth for all people.

    I never said italians didn't face discrimination............so yeah, irrelevant.
    So what's the point? Racism and ethnic hatred have their roots in the same psychology.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #70
    Epiphany
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Can you name a single individual who chose to embrace (live within and according to the customs of) a particular culture?

    There may be a few adults who have done so. But the vast majority of people are born to it, they didn't choose it. Ask anybody from India if they chose their particular caste.
    People leave and join religious cultures all the time. And there are plenty of sub-cultures that people associate with, whether it's a style of clothing, type of music, manner of speech or all the above. And being born into a culture isn't an excuse to never question it. Some cultures advocate genital mutilation and the subjugation of particular individuals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I think it's a form of prejudice to ascribe ideas to something (style of dress, manner of speaking, musical/food preferences) when those ideas are not founded in the thing itself. For instance to assume that a person who has chosen to tattoo themselves is also involved in drugs or violence. I don't think it makes the stereotyping more acceptable. That being said I personally still have prejudices and if I seem someone who fits my idea of a "dangerous person" and I'm alone I will be more alert towards them, instinctively.


    I don't know how this idea relates to racism though since color isn't a choice.
    Sure, making assumptions about people can be a form of prejudice. But I'm talking about judging people based on the behaviors and attitudes they exhibit themselves.

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