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  1. #21
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I don't know what people are thinking, but in all likelihood they don't realize that they are the adoptive parents. How could they know, due to the fact that it is extremely uncommon for black parents to adopt a white girl?
    How common is it really for someone to be a grocery store AND a criminal kidnapper? How many times to people REALLY come across that scenario? It is FAR more likely for someone to be a baby sitter, temporary care giver, etc.

    My nephews are mistaken for being mine all the time just because I'm out somewhere with them, talking to them the way I would any other kid I was caring for family or not. My SISTER used to be mistaken for being adopted by ME when we were younger. I was still young looking myself, and people had a hard time believing a sister would take care of a younger sister the way I would... they assumed me a young mother (somehow) to an adopted mexican girl. (She isn't mexican.. she just tanned well, where as I got the same amount of sun and I did not tan at all.) And they thought I was a saint, somehow, for adopting outside of a 'white' child domain.

    It is racist, and ridiculous. What you're saying is it is OKAY to assume things just because it isn't common? I mean... It is not common for a guy to like the color pink. Can I assume he's gay if he wears the color? I mean, that's okay, right? Where do you draw the line on assumptions? There were literally NONE other clues to indicate this dude was a criminal potentially assaulting/kidnapping this girl OTHER THAN HIS RACE AND GENERAL BIGOTRY. I wanted to highlight that, because it is important to note that you need BOTH for this to become a problem. His race alone is not an issue. It is the racism that creates the issue.
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  2. #22
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    At any rate, your Wikipedia definition leaves out the idea that racism must involve the idea that one race has supremacy over all other races. That's not the same thing as prejudice.
    You're right, it does leave out that idea. That's the point. No, racism neither requires the notion that one race have supremacy over all other races nor does it require ones own race to be viewed favorably.

    But what if that were the definition? What does it matter? So this behavior in the article is not racist by your really narrow definition. Do you consider it okay? Do you consider constructive, or fair? Do you think it is a product of racial prejudice or reinforces racial prejudice?

    And no doubt your definition includes prejudice, even if it means more. You can't tell someone that you are automatically superior to them due to comparative race and then claim to not be holding a prejudice against them.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    I think this is a very uplifting story actually... Katie's just going to have some different lessons growing up. There are so many bad people out there, it's really lucky she is going to have so much love at home. The judgmental world around us can cause a significant amount of psychological difficulty. But the health of the home is so much more important.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    How common is it really for someone to be a grocery store AND a criminal kidnapper? How many times to people REALLY come across that scenario? It is FAR more likely for someone to be a baby sitter, temporary care giver, etc.

    My nephews are mistaken for being mine all the time just because I'm out somewhere with them, talking to them the way I would any other kid I was caring for family or not. My SISTER used to be mistaken for being adopted by ME when we were younger. I was still young looking myself, and people had a hard time believing a sister would take care of a younger sister the way I would... they assumed me a young mother (somehow) to an adopted mexican girl. (She isn't mexican.. she just tanned well, where as I got the same amount of sun and I did not tan at all.) And they thought I was a saint, somehow, for adopting outside of a 'white' child domain.

    It is racist, and ridiculous. What you're saying is it is OKAY to assume things just because it isn't common? I mean... It is not common for a guy to like the color pink. Can I assume he's gay if he wears the color? I mean, that's okay, right? Where do you draw the line on assumptions? There were literally NONE other clues to indicate this dude was a criminal potentially assaulting/kidnapping this girl OTHER THAN HIS RACE AND GENERAL BIGOTRY. I wanted to highlight that, because it is important to note that you need BOTH for this to become a problem. His race alone is not an issue. It is the racism that creates the issue.
    Bigotry is just another word for prejudice. Neither of these are racist without the concept of one supreme race.
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  5. #25

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    I think the source of the problem in this thread between Mal's POV and MP/Kyuuei's POV is the question of whether malice is an essential part of racism. I think that's up for debate. I can see why "prejudiced" would be a preferred term for the people in this situation. Of course, that's a matter of opinion and of degree.

    What bothers me about the story is that people tend NOT to be concerned for a black child in the apparent custody of white people instead of that they ARE concerned for a white child in the apparent custody of black people. If something looks fishy with one, it should look fishy with the other as well. It might indicate that people aren't as concerned about the welfare of a black child as much as that of a white child.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    You're right, it does leave out that idea. That's the point. No, racism neither requires the notion that one race have supremacy over all other races nor does it require ones own race to be viewed favorably.

    But what if that were the definition? What does it matter? So this behavior in the article is not racist by your really narrow definition. Do you consider it okay? Do you consider constructive, or fair? Do you think it is a product of racial prejudice or reinforces racial prejudice?

    And no doubt your definition includes prejudice, even if it means more. You can't tell someone that you are automatically superior to them due to comparative race and then claim to not be holding a prejudice against them.
    That's right, you can't. If you're going to eradicate racism from the world, you'll have to start with individual prejudice and bigotry, because those are the wider concepts beyond my narrow concept of racism.

    For example, in South America the country folk are often prejudiced against the city folk, saying "All city folk are lazy."

    So of course my definition has to be narrower or else the concepts of "prejudice" and "racism" become conflated.
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  7. #27
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    That's right, you can't. If you're going to eradicate racism from the world, you'll have to start with individual prejudice and bigotry, because those are the wider concepts beyond my narrow concept of racism.

    For example, in South America the country folk are often prejudiced against the city folk, saying "All city folk are lazy."

    So of course my definition has to be narrower or else the concepts of "prejudice" and "racism" become conflated.
    It just means racism is a kind of a prejudice. It's just a sub-category. It's simply not quite as specific as you are saying it is.

    But I think my questions in the last post were more important. So what if it doesn't fit your exact definition of racism? Why is that important to you? What is your answer to all the other questions?
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  8. #28
    Retired Nicki's Avatar
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    Seems like an uncomfortable situation but it definitely could work. I can see the child having a wiser perspective in regards to her privilege when she's older. It would be interesting.
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  9. #29
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/newswee...ing-katie.html

    Do you think Katie, the baby girl in this article, will suffer emotional or other form of psychological harm from this adoption arrangement?
    I don't think she will suffer from having black parents assuming that they are good parents.


    My father is black and would take my very white cousins out for ice cream. No one called the police. Probably because rather than looking uncomfortable or scared, my cousins looked like happy children out with their uncle. The idea that someone how people have a right to be concerned about a white child in the custody of black people seems really retarded to me.

    People made fun of me for having a black parent, and others for having a white parent. It doesn't mean their was a problem with my parents or my home situation. There was a problem with those kids parents for raising them to be assholes.


    Basically no one questions if white people are good for black children, but they do in this scenario because of prejudice.
    @Mal+ the fact that you are aware that television is falsely portraying black people makes actions based on those stereotypes inexcusable.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    It just means racism is a kind of a prejudice. It's just a sub-category. It's simply not quite as specific as you are saying it is.

    But I think my questions in the last post were more important. So what if it doesn't fit your exact definition of racism? Why is that important to you? What is your answer to all the other questions?
    My answer is that you are calling people racist on the basis of prejudices you hold about racists in general.
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