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  1. #11
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    That doesn't make it not racist. You can convince people to loath themselves. As long as someone has been conditioned into prejudice toward people in an arbitrarily classified race, then it is racism. The same thing applies to gender, by the way. Misogynistic women exist. They are being sexist.
    Racists attack people of different races from themselves, by definition. That's not comparable to sexism. The very reason you mentioned women against women is because sexism is anti-female.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  2. #12
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Racists attack people of different races from themselves, by definition. That's not comparable to sexism. The very reason you mentioned women against women is because sexism is anti-female.
    "Racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior or superior."

    And if excluding prejudice toward ones' own race were a part of the definition, it would make racism a fairly stupid word, and it would make this discussion of practical triviality anyhow. Also, a woman can be sexist in regards to men. Sexism can be anti-male.

    One way or another, the function and the damage done by it are essentially identical, making it undesirable for the same reasons.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    "Racism is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior or superior."

    And if excluding prejudice toward ones' own race were a part of the definition, it would make racism a fairly stupid word, and it would make this discussion of practical triviality anyhow. Also, a woman can be sexist in regards to men. Sexism can be anti-male.

    One way or another, the function and the damage done by it are essentially identical, making it undesirable for the same reasons.
    At any rate, your Wikipedia definition leaves out the idea that racism must involve the idea that one race has supremacy over all other races. That's not the same thing as prejudice.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #14
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Why do you think it's racist? Why can't it be based in stereotypes and social memes?
    Is that real? Because stereotypes and social memes are based on racism, if that wasn't obvious. People don't think the "black people love fried chicken" stereotype is funny/true (it's not.. it's lame..) because fried chicken is particularly hilarious to like. It's because the people are black. Replace fried chicken with anything and people would use it. It is a thinking fallacy.. you see a lot of black people eating fried chicken, and you assume all black people like fried chicken.. Regardless of the sheer massive number of white people, asians, etc. that eat the exact same food.

    It is racist because it is stereotypes. The sad part is, if the scenario was a little black boy and a white woman no one would think twice, and then they'd assume she's a saint for adopting the kid. Black dude becomes a dad to a white girl needing a home and everyone flips shit. It's racist. The intentions for the girl to be safe is a thinking fallacy.. "She's with a black man, of a different race.. she MIGHT be in trouble." The girl's safety is NOT the primary motivation for the thought, even if it is what motivates them to come out of their racist shells regardless of racism being frowned upon.

    I don't hate any groups. But for example, if I were to watch nothing but television shows with black people as criminals and white people as heroes for year after year, would you blame me for assuming that black is evil and white is good?
    Yes, I would, and yes, it's racist. It is media teaching you to be racist with their not-so-subtle racist tendencies. If you cannot figure out that TV is fake and let it influence you.. well... ignorance isn't a crime, but it is not a defense in the court of law either.

    Racism is racism is racism. There is no spin off of it to make it better/different/justified.

    I know a lot of cops that are quite racist because they deal with shit time and time again.. Racial profiling is so prevalent in their job--and you know what? It works. It really, really does, a lot of the time. Until they get in serious trouble for racially profiling the wrong person. Until they notice that that suburbanite they pulled over for running a red light has more drugs in their car than anyone else they've ever arrested. It's still racist, whether the results are what they were seeking or not.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Is that real? Because stereotypes and social memes are based on racism, if that wasn't obvious. People don't think the "black people love fried chicken" stereotype is funny/true (it's not.. it's lame..) because fried chicken is particularly hilarious to like. It's because the people are black. Replace fried chicken with anything and people would use it. It is a thinking fallacy.. you see a lot of black people eating fried chicken, and you assume all black people like fried chicken.. Regardless of the sheer massive number of white people, asians, etc. that eat the exact same food.

    It is racist because it is stereotypes. The sad part is, if the scenario was a little black boy and a white woman no one would think twice, and then they'd assume she's a saint for adopting the kid. Black dude becomes a dad to a white girl needing a home and everyone flips shit. It's racist. The intentions for the girl to be safe is a thinking fallacy.. "She's with a black man, of a different race.. she MIGHT be in trouble." The girl's safety is NOT the primary motivation for the thought, even if it is what motivates them to come out of their racist shells regardless of racism being frowned upon.



    Yes, I would, and yes, it's racist. It is media teaching you to be racist with their not-so-subtle racist tendencies. If you cannot figure out that TV is fake and let it influence you.. well... ignorance isn't a crime, but it is not a defense in the court of law either.

    Racism is racism is racism. There is no spin off of it to make it better/different/justified.

    I know a lot of cops that are quite racist because they deal with shit time and time again.. Racial profiling is so prevalent in their job--and you know what? It works. It really, really does, a lot of the time. Until they get in serious trouble for racially profiling the wrong person. Until they notice that that suburbanite they pulled over for running a red light has more drugs in their car than anyone else they've ever arrested. It's still racist, whether the results are what they were seeking or not.
    Still, I get no sense of one's racial superiority from this. Even if all black people like fried chicken and watermelon, that doesn't make the black race inferior to any other races. Therefore it's not racist to point it out. It might be racist, but not necessarily. Someone could mistakenly assume it based on experience. That is called "prejudice," not racism.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #16
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    As for Katie's possible psychological damage:
    "Katie, too, has sometimes struggled with her unusual situation, and how outsiders perceive it. When she's not drawing, swimming or pining after teen heartthrob Zac Efron, she's often dealing with normal kid teasing with a nasty edge. "They'll ignore me or yell at me because I have a black family," she says. Most of her friends are black, although her school is primarily white. And Terri has noticed something else: Katie is uncomfortable identifying people by their race."

    (From the article cited in the OP.)
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    As for Katie's possible psychological damage:
    "Katie, too, has sometimes struggled with her unusual situation, and how outsiders perceive it. When she's not drawing, swimming or pining after teen heartthrob Zac Efron, she's often dealing with normal kid teasing with a nasty edge. "They'll ignore me or yell at me because I have a black family," she says. Most of her friends are black, although her school is primarily white. And Terri has noticed something else: Katie is uncomfortable identifying people by their race."

    (From the article cited in the OP.)
    I don't think that's justification to disallow parents to adopt children from other races though. Kids also get made fun of for being fat, skinny, short, etc... Kids are mean. The article mentions "racial realities" being a reason to restrict which child one can adopt. These are social attitudes that are maleable and have the potential to change, along with cultural ideals.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moniker View Post
    I don't think that's justification to disallow people from adoptung children from other races though. Kids also get made fun of for being fat, skinny, short, etc... Kids are mean.
    The article mentions "racial realities" being a reason to choose which child to adopt. These are social attitudes that are maleable and have the potential to change, along with culture.
    That's true. These people who react to the adoption are not racist. They're just not used to the idea.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #19
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Still, I get no sense of one's racial superiority from this. Even if all black people like fried chicken and watermelon, that doesn't make the black race inferior to any other races. Therefore it's not racist to point it out. It might be racist, but not necessarily. Someone could mistakenly assume it based on experience. That is called "prejudice," not racism.
    The superiority comes from natural human tendencies. If we're not the same, it means we're different. As long as we rank each other, we're above or below. The stereotype in this case is not "black people love fried chicken." They weren't saving the girl from fried chicken. It is the OTHER stereotypes, the ones that the fried chicken ones make more believable, that do the harm. "Black people are typically more crime-related than white people." Absolutely untrue, but it is a logical fallacy a lot of people adopt, and it is OKAY to think that because we think about other, less harmful ones too! Like how black people can cook good food! See, it goes both ways, so it's okay isn't it?!

    So now, there is a superiority issue. White people feel obligated to 'protect' that kid from that mean old black dude because, hey, he might not be a caregiver, or even a baby sitter, he might be a CRIMINAL. At a grocery store. In the cereal aisle. Seriously.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    The superiority comes from natural human tendencies. If we're not the same, it means we're different. As long as we rank each other, we're above or below. The stereotype in this case is not "black people love fried chicken." They weren't saving the girl from fried chicken. It is the OTHER stereotypes, the ones that the fried chicken ones make more believable, that do the harm. "Black people are typically more crime-related than white people." Absolutely untrue, but it is a logical fallacy a lot of people adopt, and it is OKAY to think that because we think about other, less harmful ones too! Like how black people can cook good food! See, it goes both ways, so it's okay isn't it?!

    So now, there is a superiority issue. White people feel obligated to 'protect' that kid from that mean old black dude because, hey, he might not be a caregiver, or even a baby sitter, he might be a CRIMINAL. At a grocery store. In the cereal aisle. Seriously.
    I don't know what people are thinking, but in all likelihood they don't realize that they are the adoptive parents. How could they know, due to the fact that it is extremely uncommon for black parents to adopt a white girl?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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