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  1. #171
    redundant descriptor netzealot's Avatar
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    gay people can adopt children, but the news decides interracial families are news worthy. Almost forgot it was 2013.

  2. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    i'm not even at the point of disagreeing with it yet, i just genuinely don't get it.

    i mean just... why? how? what? who? where the f' is that coming from?
    I think its the confusion of ethnicity and cultural identity, its more accepted among minorities and historically oppressed or marginalised populations than in majorities, so black nationalism doesnt evoke the same responses as white nationalism or even zionism although they are objectively similar or the same.

    This is a big problem with modern day liberalism informed thinking, there's no proportionality, no equivolence, just the underdog who requires support unconditionally.

  3. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I think its the confusion of ethnicity and cultural identity, its more accepted among minorities and historically oppressed or marginalised populations than in majorities, so black nationalism doesnt evoke the same responses as white nationalism or even zionism although they are objectively similar or the same.

    This is a big problem with modern day liberalism informed thinking, there's no proportionality, no equivolence, just the underdog who requires support unconditionally.
    Yes, like what I said about Spanish. It actually doesn't make as much sense as it should. Why don't people question it more in a nation of immigrants, in a nation where there are people who would have a more complicated time learning English than Spanish speakers?

    Just as an example. I guess it's sheer numbers...I guess.

  4. #174

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    Quote Originally Posted by LevelZeroHero View Post
    gay people can adopt children, but the news decides interracial families are news worthy. Almost forgot it was 2013.
    Yeah, I think that sexual orientation is going to be a far bigger factor than race, at least I could as to why because there are potentially major, major differences between the child and their parents in terms of orientation, giving rise to some sort of turmoil, whereas with race it is what should by today be a superficial difference.

    I can foresee some complete disasters in the future on that politically correct score to be honest, imagine a homosexual couple with major rejection, abandonment or estrangement issues in their lives, maybe one, maybe both, arising from the fact their parents, friends or family didnt accept their orientation or were perceived as not accepting enough and then this repeates itself with a child in adolescence who they've cared for all their days until that point. Absolutely everyone is miserable in that scenario and then the fallout from that have a ripple effect on other relationships.

    Maybe it wouldnt be an issue, it wouldnt be right away and I dont believe that anyones sexual orientation should intrude upon basic care, even a lot of the less basic care but orientation is a big, big deal, the rejection and estrangement possible as a consequence of it is a big, big deal, the advocates of homosexuality have said so for a long time. I'm just not sure that either the advocates of homosexuality or their opponents are likely to spark much in the way of proper reflection on matters like this, it hasnt happened yet, its just been "change, change, change" and "no, no, no" not a damn notice taken of consequences or expectations or whatever.

  5. #175

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Yes, like what I said about Spanish. It actually doesn't make as much sense as it should. Why don't people question it more in a nation of immigrants, in a nation where there are people who would have a more complicated time learning English than Spanish speakers?

    Just as an example. I guess it's sheer numbers...I guess.
    Numbers is a big part of it, I can understand why we've had a lot of reaction against majoritarianism given all the collectivism and democracy as a head count fails in the recent past but minoritarianism and doing everything to please the minority isnt going to be much better.

  6. #176
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    Just to step in on the thing @Ivy brought up. It's not that it's a problem to have a different section for different hair care needs it's the idea that black people are ethnic and white people aren't.

    White people still have ethnicities. So really the term just implies minority groups, the other. Just like there used to be "ethnic food" sections at the grocery. At my store its now changed to "Japanese", "Mexican", ect. Which I think makes more sense then lumping it all together as "ethnic". How is tortilla ethnic but pasta isn't?

    Also as a person with "other hair", you didn't really see that represented in the media until very reccently and even still it's sort of a marginal thing. For instance in women's magazine there examples for "curly hair" are typically women like Taylor swift. When I see that I feel like my hair so different that they don't feel the need to address it. And in black hair magazines the majority of styles are still perms or weaves. There are t any salons near my home that cut natural black hair. Why beauty school doesn't expect their students to have to work with black hair I don't understand. -_-. It's not the biggest deal ever but it is a sense of "otherness" or being set apart.
    Thankfully now is getting more wide sread and their are more hair options.
    I don't see any ethnic differences.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  7. #177
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    What would you propose as an alternative to "ethnic"? I'm not attached to a specific terminology either way, but it just seems like a marketing BS word. I'm not you, so I can't say how you perceive it, but for me it just seems like a standard bulk identifier and I don't think much of it. FWIW, when I was younger I lived in a kosher household and I can't say I really cared that specialty products like Matzoh were stashed in the 'ethnic' group - it was just easy to walk on over and find the "other people aisle" and pick out what I needed, because I'm ok with being different than most people because most people really don't need (or want) to buy Matzoh. I even shopped at the "other person" grocery store which featured Kosher products. I realize ethnic doesn't literally make sense, but I don't really care because I get what they're trying to say. Whatever. You're entitled to your opinion and to disagree, but I don't think it's something that caused me psychological harm.

    Having "Jew" become a replacement for my name and an instant punchline for jokes that weren't there "Well you're a Jew" was unpleasant and anger inducing. Grocery store lumping - don't care.

    The natural black hair thing does seem pretty screwed up, I'll agree with you there. Why not just teach people to cut natural hair? I really don't know why, and yes that does seem silly.



    Fair distinction. I meant normal in more of a statistics sense, but typical has less other connotation problems. I'm definitely not saying we should ignore minorities. But, if that group is "the other" in some sense, well...that's just what it is. Most people don't need the same products I presume you want/need. I'm not saying you're inferior...but you ARE different. I don't know if there's any way around that.

    Vegetarians need to order products on the menu designated 'for vegetarians' in most restaurants because most people aren't vegetarian. There's no judgement there, it's just acknowledging different needs. Handicap accessible restrooms are labeled as such because the rails make a difference. People who are really tall or wide (or little people) go to stores that carry especially to their needs because most people aren't built like they are. You get the idea...all of these people are "other" in some way, in some contexts.


    I totally agree that everyone's different an we don't need to act like everyone ones that same. I have no problem with it just being called what it is "black hair care", veggetarian menu, handicapped stall. Even ethnic never really bothered me on a day to day basis. I was just when I thought about it it kin of reflected this underlying idea in the culture that some ethnic groups were more accepted as into mainstream culture (pasta vs udon). And with the hair stuff it was just sort of this feeling like "we'll of most places don't have stuff for or no what do with my hair is their something wrong with it? (Which can be true even when black people work on your hair because all they want to do is make it straight) basically in regard to typical vs normal, here in America I am atypical but in a different place I might be the norm. I have no problem with be recognized as different from people in my immediate surroundind as long as there is the understanding that it's still a natural way to be. It's not really rare to have this hair. Straight hair is not the default human setting with everything else being sort of an branch off from that. I guess it bothers me that the default conception of a human here is white, Protestant male usually. But for say a Muslim, Asian woman that's her normal. Hmmm I don't think I'm explaining well. Basically I think there is a way of seeming people as different from the majority while still recognizing that that is a normal and legitimate way to be. And to me that's by referring to things as what they are rather than lumping it into an "other" category".

    An again this is purely a discussion of ideas I'm not raging against the system. But like when I was in school and they had pick a race "two or more races" feels more legitimate than "other" which is better than no option.

    I has to fill out some work forms and this idiot woman was asking me questions and then typing in the computer. She asked for race and I said biracial and she said that wasn't an option and then looked like "just choose one". It wasn't a big deal to her but It was like getting a brick dropped on me and it wasn't kind of panicking until she found the little option by scrolling down. So while I recognize it wasn't malicious on her part, and it wouldn't really mean much to the system and no one would really see it, I did have this huge significance personally because it's connected to how I self identify and feel about my family and ideas of race. Same with the other stuff isn't not intentionally bad but it probably affects how people think of themselves and that could be bad. Like the video ivy posted, that seems like psychological damage to me and I don't think people targeted those kids to feel that way but it's a product of sort of only playing to a certain group of people. For instance there was a commericial that's tag line was something like "what to do with your frizzy curls?" And I'm thinking Yes! A product for curls but the follow up is "make them straight!" -_-. Haha. it didn't ruin my life(or my day) but it does feels like a rejection do curly hair which combined with other messages about curly hair can make you feel a little bad about having it and therefore bad about yourself. you can choose to logical approach that and not accept it which is what I try to do, but I think that's harder for kids/teens/people with no examples of positive depictions of people like themselves.



    As for the Jewish stuff that's really dumb. I think sometimes people makes jokes to try and feel connected like they can say it because you know their kidding and so somehow that's good? But yeah being refered to a "Jew" and jokes about it are really stupid and uncool!

  8. #178
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah, I think that sexual orientation is going to be a far bigger factor than race, at least I could as to why because there are potentially major, major differences between the child and their parents in terms of orientation, giving rise to some sort of turmoil, whereas with race it is what should by today be a superficial difference.

    I can foresee some complete disasters in the future on that politically correct score to be honest, imagine a homosexual couple with major rejection, abandonment or estrangement issues in their lives, maybe one, maybe both, arising from the fact their parents, friends or family didnt accept their orientation or were perceived as not accepting enough and then this repeates itself with a child in adolescence who they've cared for all their days until that point. Absolutely everyone is miserable in that scenario and then the fallout from that have a ripple effect on other relationships.

    Maybe it wouldnt be an issue, it wouldnt be right away and I dont believe that anyones sexual orientation should intrude upon basic care, even a lot of the less basic care but orientation is a big, big deal, the rejection and estrangement possible as a consequence of it is a big, big deal, the advocates of homosexuality have said so for a long time. I'm just not sure that either the advocates of homosexuality or their opponents are likely to spark much in the way of proper reflection on matters like this, it hasnt happened yet, its just been "change, change, change" and "no, no, no" not a damn notice taken of consequences or expectations or whatever.
    That's a big IF lark. What if a straight couple includes a person who was rejected by their family or abused in some way? Your suggesting that person could be equally damaging right? So it's not really sexual orientation you would want to screen for but a history of family instability. Also who's to say that the rejection they faced as a teen wouldn't cause them to be more accepting of their own child? Basically I think you argument isn't based on really anything concrete about orientation that could be harmful.

  9. #179

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    That's a big IF lark. What if a straight couple includes a person who was rejected by their family or abused in some way? Your suggesting that person could be equally damaging right? So it's not really sexual orientation you would want to screen for but a history of family instability. Also who's to say that the rejection they faced as a teen wouldn't cause them to be more accepting of their own child? Basically I think you argument isn't based on really anything concrete about orientation that could be harmful.
    I know that its a possible feature in all family dynamics based upon the bios of the parents but its prevailence is greater among the homosexual community based upon their own self-reports of the same, or, I mean, perhaps it isnt the case, perhaps they've not been saying it all this time and its not necessary for the majority to get in step with their ideas of what marriages should be?

  10. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I think its the confusion of ethnicity and cultural identity, its more accepted among minorities and historically oppressed or marginalised populations than in majorities, so black nationalism doesnt evoke the same responses as white nationalism or even zionism although they are objectively similar or the same.

    This is a big problem with modern day liberalism informed thinking, there's no proportionality, no equivolence, just the underdog who requires support unconditionally.
    but the stance has nothing to do with pushing for maintaining the heritage: they aren't advocating for more black families to adopt black children, they aren't advocating against the disproportionate incarceration of black people or for family planning to reduce underaged pregnancies so that more of them can keep their children... they are advocating against white people adopting black children when the alternative is for the black child to not be adopted at all, how does keeping the children in adoption limbo maintains their cultural heritage? it doesn't make sense.

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