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  1. #161
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    hair products is a minute issue here, actually the problem is society's reaction to this not the fact that a black couple adopted a white baby i mean in the 90s white people adopted babies from china and that was the in thing. Now that its a black couple and people still consider on some level blacks inferior its a big deal. what is the difference? you're just being racists by being accepting of white people adopting outside their race but going no no a black person can only adopt black babies, what the frak?
    This thread is awesome, although I disagree with everybody who posts to it. You're jumping to conclusions if you think you know what people are thinking. Pimps and thugs are 'in' right now, so it can't be a question of thinking anybody is inferior.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  2. #162
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Just to step in on the thing @Ivy brought up. It's not that it's a problem to have a different section for different hair care needs it's the idea that black people are ethnic and white people aren't.

    White people still have ethnicities. So really the term just implies minority groups, the other. Just like there used to be "ethnic food" sections at the grocery. At my store its now changed to "Japanese", "Mexican", ect. Which I think makes more sense then lumping it all together as "ethnic". How is tortilla ethnic but pasta isn't?

    Also as a person with "other hair", you didn't really see that represented in the media until very reccently and even still it's sort of a marginal thing. For instance in women's magazine there examples for "curly hair" are typically women like Taylor swift. When I see that I feel like my hair so different that they don't feel the need to address it. And in black hair magazines the majority of styles are still perms or weaves. There are t any salons near my home that cut natural black hair. Why beauty school doesn't expect their students to have to work with black hair I don't understand. -_-. It's not the biggest deal ever but it is a sense of "otherness" or being set apart.
    Thankfully now is getting more wide sread and their are more hair options.

  3. #163
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Thanks Pseudo. You stated it better than I could.

  4. #164
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Do you guys remember that story last year about the white guy with a black granddaughter that got jumped by the cops on the way home from the skating rink? Apparently the guy exaggerated and the cops were looking for a missing black child, but the way they approached them would have made me pee my pants if it'd been me.

    I suspect there might actually be more sexism than racism going on with some of these situations: man with kid that doesn't look he/she belongs with him = child molester.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  5. #165
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    This thread is awesome, although I disagree with everybody who posts to it. You're jumping to conclusions if you think you know what people are thinking. Pimps and thugs are 'in' right now, so it can't be a question of thinking anybody is inferior.
    \ I never said i knew what people were thinking, or that i even thought it in this thread. I was drawing a parallel between the situation and another one. It doesn't make sense to be ok with one but not the other.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  6. #166
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    While I agree with the 'assumption of default' bit, considering that the reality is that there actually isn't a true 'default' way to behave, then wouldn't it stand to reason that there is such thing as an assumed "white culture", at least in theory? Obviously culture identifies like these are broad brushes.

    Also, at some point I think that speaking to a majority as normal is ok. Most people (in the US, by population %, not just whites but hispanics asians etc) have relatively straight/wavy hair that is texturally different than the hair black people generally (naturally) have. I don't think it's a terrible thing to assume that one group is "normal" when they are, in fact, the typical majority. Non-normal doesn't have to imply inferior.

    Perhaps it's dependent on cultural context, but that sort of 'segregation' doesn't seem like (negative) racism as much as it is shopping convenience to have a grouping of hair products that work best for you.

    PS I know very little about hair products, but I'd assume that these products are more than just marketing hype and that some products really do work better with very curly hair.

    PSS my mom (white, though sort of ethnically ambiguous looking) who had curly hair tended to shop the "ethnic hair" aisle because she seemed to think those products worked well for her.
    I think there is a difference between "typical" and normal. My hair might not be typical but that doesn't mean it's not a normal type of hair to have. A friend of mine made your same argument and I had to disagree. Just because people are in the minority I don't think we should sort ignore them/treat them as other. Well....I guess a corporation that might make sense but I think it's a bit of a psychologically harmfully position to take.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    Just to step in on the thing @Ivy brought up. It's not that it's a problem to have a different section for different hair care needs it's the idea that black people are ethnic and white people aren't.

    White people still have ethnicities. So really the term just implies minority groups, the other. Just like there used to be "ethnic food" sections at the grocery. At my store its now changed to "Japanese", "Mexican", ect. Which I think makes more sense then lumping it all together as "ethnic". How is tortilla ethnic but pasta isn't?

    Also as a person with "other hair", you didn't really see that represented in the media until very reccently and even still it's sort of a marginal thing. For instance in women's magazine there examples for "curly hair" are typically women like Taylor swift. When I see that I feel like my hair so different that they don't feel the need to address it. And in black hair magazines the majority of styles are still perms or weaves. There are t any salons near my home that cut natural black hair. Why beauty school doesn't expect their students to have to work with black hair I don't understand. -_-. It's not the biggest deal ever but it is a sense of "otherness" or being set apart.
    Thankfully now is getting more wide sread and their are more hair options.
    Yeah I live in the L.A. area and lemme tell you, "ethnic" foods are like Japanese, Chinese, Israeli, Mexican...even British. I've seen British foods in the ethnic foods section.

    Guess what isn't?

    Italian food!

    Also, hummus. Hummus is everywhere. The only people who seem to eschew hummus are the Mexicans, you can't find it anywhere even if their big supermarkets.

    It's funny how certain ethnic groups have become so blended into the food culture that we think of it as American food.

    "We'll accept this, but not that."

    I mean how come we didn't have press 1 for Russian when all of those people came here from the former USSR? There's a lot here. I've met so many it kind of boggles my mind, and I guess the difference is that people presume most people who came from the USSR (or Japan, or India) are at least middle class, so they don't need this condescending language allowance?

    Is it because Mexican immigrants are stereotyped as poor and ignorant?

    I'm curious about this, I really am.

  8. #168
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Do you guys remember that story last year about the white guy with a black granddaughter that got jumped by the cops on the way home from the skating rink? Apparently the guy exaggerated and the cops were looking for a missing black child, but the way they approached them would have made me pee my pants if it'd been me.

    I suspect there might actually be more sexism than racism going on with some of these situations: man with kid that doesn't look he/she belongs with him = child molester.
    I agree with this. I feel like white mom with black kid or black mom with white kid will get people thinking "nanny" at worst. Whereas a dad in that situation people jump straight to "pedo".

  9. #169
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Apropos of nothing (not really applicable to the current discussion, but I was reminded anyway)... when they were small, people often thought I was my own children's nanny, because they're both blonde with blue eyes and I have dark hair and eyes. And probably because I don't fuss and hover over them and say things like "use your words."

  10. #170
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    Just to step in on the thing @Ivy brought up. It's not that it's a problem to have a different section for different hair care needs it's the idea that black people are ethnic and white people aren't.

    White people still have ethnicities. So really the term just implies minority groups, the other. Just like there used to be "ethnic food" sections at the grocery. At my store its now changed to "Japanese", "Mexican", ect. Which I think makes more sense then lumping it all together as "ethnic". How is tortilla ethnic but pasta isn't?

    Also as a person with "other hair", you didn't really see that represented in the media until very reccently and even still it's sort of a marginal thing. For instance in women's magazine there examples for "curly hair" are typically women like Taylor swift. When I see that I feel like my hair so different that they don't feel the need to address it. And in black hair magazines the majority of styles are still perms or weaves. There are t any salons near my home that cut natural black hair. Why beauty school doesn't expect their students to have to work with black hair I don't understand. -_-. It's not the biggest deal ever but it is a sense of "otherness" or being set apart.
    Thankfully now is getting more wide sread and their are more hair options.

    What would you propose as an alternative to "ethnic"? I'm not attached to a specific terminology either way, but it just seems like a marketing BS word. I'm not you, so I can't say how you perceive it, but for me it just seems like a standard bulk identifier and I don't think much of it. FWIW, when I was younger I lived in a kosher household and I can't say I really cared that specialty products like Matzoh were stashed in the 'ethnic' group - it was just easy to walk on over and find the "other people aisle" and pick out what I needed, because I'm ok with being different than most people because most people really don't need (or want) to buy Matzoh. I even shopped at the "other person" grocery store which featured Kosher products. I realize ethnic doesn't literally make sense, but I don't really care because I get what they're trying to say. Whatever. You're entitled to your opinion and to disagree, but I don't think it's something that caused me psychological harm.

    Having "Jew" become a replacement for my name and an instant punchline for jokes that weren't there "Well you're a Jew" was unpleasant and anger inducing. Grocery store lumping - don't care.

    The natural black hair thing does seem pretty screwed up, I'll agree with you there. Why not just teach people to cut natural hair? I really don't know why, and yes that does seem silly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I think there is a difference between "typical" and normal. My hair might not be typical but that doesn't mean it's not a normal type of hair to have. A friend of mine made your same argument and I had to disagree. Just because people are in the minority I don't think we should sort ignore them/treat them as other. Well....I guess a corporation that might make sense but I think it's a bit of a psychologically harmfully position to take.
    Fair distinction. I meant normal in more of a statistics sense, but typical has less other connotation problems. I'm definitely not saying we should ignore minorities. But, if that group is "the other" in some sense, well...that's just what it is. Most people don't need the same products I presume you want/need. I'm not saying you're inferior...but you ARE different. I don't know if there's any way around that.

    Vegetarians need to order products on the menu designated 'for vegetarians' in most restaurants because most people aren't vegetarian. There's no judgement there, it's just acknowledging different needs. Handicap accessible restrooms are labeled as such because the rails make a difference. People who are really tall or wide (or little people) go to stores that carry especially to their needs because most people aren't built like they are. You get the idea...all of these people are "other" in some way, in some contexts.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

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