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  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moniker View Post
    In your own words, what differentiates these diametrically opposed cultures? Sure, I've heard the term "black culture" before by both black and white people to associate certain music, fashion, attitudes and ideas to the black population. But I know black people who don't want to be associated with that culture at all, and they are even deemed as "traitors to their race," by some. There are white people and members of other races who identity with that culture, as well. Does that make them black? Of course not.

    Now, you tell us what your definition of white culture is.
    Most European preservationists die if they hear the term "white culture" IME.

    They furiously foam at the mouth, saying Americans are natural multi-culturalists who relate to other American multi-culturalists, in the way that the French relate to the French.

    It is culture, not race, that binds people.

    However, some would argue that our major race (Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Negroid) does bind us in some way to more easily adapt to those sub-racial cultures, but those people are racialists, and are generally frowned upon by polite society.

    And it does nothing in the way of explaining "white trash" who act a lot like "black people" from the "ghetto" ...just as an example.

    Some people argue that our physical traits, though genetically minuscule in difference, really do affect things, though.

    I dunno.

    I try to keep an open mind about it, because I don't want to be the brainwashed liberal asshole who denied science.

  2. #112
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Throughout the thread I've been referring to Black American culture, and not the Bill Cosby culture which opposes it. Black American culture is opposed to White American culture. Much of the former is political in nature. http://blackpolitics.com/
    What is bill Cosby culture? Basically any black person who doesn't fit the offensive stereotypes that you seem to think define black Americans? You think that stable educated black people are some his not apart of black culture? Bill Cosby is black, so whatever cultural he has is one form of black culture.

    I feel like you are just trolling now in an atempt to offend people. I think it's obvious you understand what people are saying but you just making stupid offensive arguments for .....fun I guess

  3. #113
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moniker View Post
    In your own words, what differentiates these diametrically opposed cultures? Sure, I've heard the term "black culture" before by both black and white people to associate certain music, fashion, attitudes and ideas to the black population. But I know black people who don't want to be associated with that culture at all, and they are even deemed as "traitors to their race," by some. There are white people and members of other races who identity with that culture, as well. Does that make them black? Of course not.

    Now, you tell us what your definition of white culture is.
    I feel like I've been doing all the thinking here. Why don't you tell me what you think white culture is?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #114
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    What is bill Cosby culture? Basically any black person who doesn't fit the offensive stereotypes that you seem to think define black Americans? You think that stable educated black people are some his not apart of black culture? Bill Cosby is black, so whatever cultural he has is one form of black culture.

    I feel like you are just trolling now in an atempt to offend people. I think it's obvious you understand what people are saying but you just making stupid offensive arguments for .....fun I guess
    Then I guess Bill Cosby is a troll -
    http://www.californiaindianeducation...me_whites.html

    We Cannot Blame the White People any Longer

    By Dr. William Henry 'Bill' Cosby, Jr., Ed.D.

    They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English.

    I can't even talk the way these people talk:

    "Why you ain't,
    Where you is,
    What he drive,
    Where he stay,
    Where he work,
    Who you be...".
    And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk.

    And then I heard the father talk.

    Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth.

    In fact you will never get any kind of job making a decent living.

    People marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an Education, and now we've got these knuckleheads walking around.

    The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal.

    These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids.

    $500 sneakers for what?

    And they won't spend $200 for "Hooked on Phonics."

    I am talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit.

    Where were you when he was 2?

    Where were you when he was 12?

    Where were you when he was 18, and how come you didn't know that he had a pistol?

    And where is the father? Or who is his father?

    People putting their clothes on backward. Isn't that a sign of something gone wrong?

    People with their hats on backward, pants down around the crack, isn't that a sign of something?

    Isn't it a sign of something when she has her dress all the way up and got all type of needles (piercings) going through her body?

    What part of Africa did this come from?

    We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans; they don't know a thing about Africa.

    I say this all of the time — it would be like white people saying they are European-American — that is totally stupid.

    I was born here, and so were my parents and grand parents and, very likely my great grandparents. I don't have any connection to Africa, no more than white Americans have to Germany, Scotland, England, Ireland, or the Netherlands.

    The same applies to 99 percent of all the black Americans as regards to Africa — so stop, already!

    With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap...and all of them are in jail.

    Brown or black versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person's problem.

    We have got to take the neighborhood back.

    People used to be ashamed.

    Today a woman has eight children with eight different 'husbands' — or men or whatever you call them now.

    We have millionaire football players who cannot read.

    We have million-dollar basketball players who can't write two paragraphs. We, as black folks, have to do a better job.

    Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting us.

    We have to start holding each other to a higher standard....
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #115
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Ok, I don't know if you have me on "ignore" but I was really trying to help you with my post, and you didn't get it (or didn't read it). Even "white people culture" is different.

    If my sub-race is North Atlantic-Alpinid (Caucasoid) and Cherokee/Shawnee (Mongoloid, as in deriving from Mongols, unless you believe Native Americans are a fourth race, which I don't, because they just say it was a really long time ago, not that it didn't happen, so that makes them a separate sub-race, not a separate race), ...and I grow up with vaguely German middle class, and vaguely Irish working class, and random small interspersion of Native American things like running around barefoot and eating corn bread, forms of culture...do I recognize all of this racially?

    If I had been adopted by Russian people who were also "white"...I doubt I would have been any the wiser because I was eating borscht and kvass and celebrating Christmas in January than I would have been eating cabbage with money in it, rolladen and celebrating Christmas on Dec. 24 and not understanding why everyone else loves boring-as-hell Dec 25.

    The main recognition problem, with ANY adopted child, is not resembling either parent physically.

    There are different kinds of "black culture." All African-Americans don't drink "purple drank." You really need to stop.
    As usual you just put words in my mouth. So please don't help me. And yes, I've had you on ignore for two years.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #116
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Then I guess Bill Cosby is a troll -
    http://www.californiaindianeducation...me_whites.html

    We Cannot Blame the White People any Longer

    By Dr. William Henry 'Bill' Cosby, Jr., Ed.D.

    They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English.

    I can't even talk the way these people talk:

    "Why you ain't,
    Where you is,
    What he drive,
    Where he stay,
    Where he work,
    Who you be...".
    And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk.

    And then I heard the father talk.

    Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth.

    In fact you will never get any kind of job making a decent living.

    People marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an Education, and now we've got these knuckleheads walking around.

    The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal.

    These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids.

    $500 sneakers for what?

    And they won't spend $200 for "Hooked on Phonics."

    I am talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit.

    Where were you when he was 2?

    Where were you when he was 12?

    Where were you when he was 18, and how come you didn't know that he had a pistol?

    And where is the father? Or who is his father?

    People putting their clothes on backward. Isn't that a sign of something gone wrong?

    People with their hats on backward, pants down around the crack, isn't that a sign of something?

    Isn't it a sign of something when she has her dress all the way up and got all type of needles (piercings) going through her body?

    What part of Africa did this come from?

    We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans; they don't know a thing about Africa.

    I say this all of the time — it would be like white people saying they are European-American — that is totally stupid.

    I was born here, and so were my parents and grand parents and, very likely my great grandparents. I don't have any connection to Africa, no more than white Americans have to Germany, Scotland, England, Ireland, or the Netherlands.

    The same applies to 99 percent of all the black Americans as regards to Africa — so stop, already!

    With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap...and all of them are in jail.

    Brown or black versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person's problem.

    We have got to take the neighborhood back.

    People used to be ashamed.

    Today a woman has eight children with eight different 'husbands' — or men or whatever you call them now.

    We have millionaire football players who cannot read.

    We have million-dollar basketball players who can't write two paragraphs. We, as black folks, have to do a better job.

    Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting us.

    We have to start holding each other to a higher standard....
    I didn't find the part where he said that there was a homogenous black culture or that these negative behaviors = black culture.

  7. #117
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Definitely it's racist, although Baltimore's a weird city. The article only identifies an "affluent" suburb, and there's a heavy black inner city population down here. ...

    IOW, it's not just that people are black, it's also factored with fear of lower-income, higher-crime area blacks -- ... If people can't tell the difference, they start making assumptions or feeling uneasy. And it's not just white people being afraid of black people ...
    This is exactly why I feel that even racism that has intents for not being malice are STILL malice in nature. I mean, if the guy was dressed as a lawyer and spoke proper English in an up-town residential in a smaller city and had lived there a while, I don't think he'd continue to have so many problems.. but you live where you can afford to live while maintaining support from friends and family, and adoption isn't cheap.

    Racism goes both ways, has since the dawn of time, and some of it (I feel) is natural. Sticking to those that 'look like you' is a natural instinct.. And that stems beyond racism itself into things like perceived social classes, but racism still has a huge motivator there. People literally cannot look at someone even in their same social class and think they 'look like them.' Especially with Baltimore being a heavy low-income black populace, it is so much easier for them to think x or y without batting an eyelash--because it more often than not fits their stereotype mentality, and the self-fulfilling prophecy makes the idea more concrete. But that is just one small picture in a world: it's still inaccurate, and it still causes damage and harm regardless of the intentions.

    I'm focusing on white people fearing black people as criminals because that is the particular scenario being played out too much in the article.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Bigotry is just another word for prejudice. Neither of these are racist without the concept of one supreme race.
    You don't have to have a Hitler mentality to think yourself superior to someone. You don't have to think, "ALL WHITE PEOPLE ARE GREAT AND BLACK PEOPLE CAN SUCK IT!" to find yourself supreme in a racist way. Do you know how many white people say, "There's a difference between black people and n-words" with a totally straight face and completely mean it in their heart? People think if they just make exceptions to the rule that it's okay to be racist. "Well, I have black friends and they're cool, so I can hate all those other people I don't know at all."

    It doesn't work like that. There is a sense of underlining superiority there. People try to intervene with this girl's 'kidnapping' or whatever they thought cereal-box-shopping was because their moralities are higher than the criminal trying to take this girl, and they need to act on that. These superior morals are literally telling them that some low-income black dude has taken this girl from her poor loving white parents somewhere.

    If you don't want to see racism where it plainly is, no one here is going to convince you of it. But when you ask the question, "is it racist?", and everyone says, "Yes" and you say, "Well I don't think so because I use the dictionary to re-define terms in a more literal, scholarly way vs a socially-accepted usage," then.. dude.. the conversation is going to die there.

    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    I think the source of the problem in this thread between Mal's POV and MP/Kyuuei's POV is the question of whether malice is an essential part of racism. I think that's up for debate.
    I think it is a natural reaction, a biological one, to at least some degree. It is one we use to defend ourselves--when we're surrounded by people that don't look like us, talk like us, and act like us, and they're anything but hospitable (from indifference on into vibes of malice) we naturally recoil back. It is a survival instinct.. it is why babies smile, people form cliques, and why companies have HR reps.

    But, there gets to be logical fallacies based in those instincts mixed with a few personal experiences and some good ole cultural nurturing that keep higher thinking orders from coming into play. People grow up learning to control their anger and emotions, how to not act like total selfish jackasses, and hopefully how to not be a complete bigot or sexist. It is that back-tracking of mentalities, that inability to move forward and beyond, that stagnation that is malicious to society.. Even if the person themselves don't feel the downside, it is contributing to society as a whole in a malicious way.

    What bothers me about the story is that people tend NOT to be concerned for a black child in the apparent custody of white people instead of that they ARE concerned for a white child in the apparent custody of black people. If something looks fishy with one, it should look fishy with the other as well. It might indicate that people aren't as concerned about the welfare of a black child as much as that of a white child.
    It has been proven before that this tends to be a trend as well--that the welfare of a black child is lower on the priority list of society overall. And this is the point entirely.. Discrimination, prejudice, and bigotry are tools to get to racism, and those little working parts create the underlining malice where even children are ranked by priority according to skin color.
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  8. #118
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I didn't find the part where he said that there was a homogenous black culture or that these negative behaviors = black culture.
    Exactly, he is implying the opposite. That there is a lack of homogeneity in the black community--and thus a lack of caring for what happens to one another.. and that the negative behaviors are in fact destroying the black community, not becoming a part of it.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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  9. #119
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    ". Phyllis was in many ways an unlikely savior. The former president of the Baltimore chapter of the National Association of Black Social Workers, she joined her colleagues in condemning the adoption of black children by white families as "cultural genocide"—a position she still holds in theory, if not in practice. "

    wait.. wtf?

  10. #120

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    To be honest if they are caring and raise the kid right then what's the issue?

    Seriously, I think that class, creed and even sexual orientation could be bigger factors than race when it comes to successful adoptions which are good for the child.

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