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  1. #121
    Senior Member captain curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    But worse, the hijab sybolises the Stockholm Syndrome where Islamic women take on the values of their oppressors.
    Just as a profile picture and frequent positive mention of one's head of state symbolises the Stockholm Syndrome where a citizen takes on the values of their country? How is taking on the values of one's country of residence or birth any different than taking on the values of one's religion?
    Jarlaxle: fact checking this thread makes me want to go all INFP on my wrists

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  2. #122
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    However, I have no problem with the hijab. I see women wearing it, it does not bother me, what bothers me are women draped in black with only their eyes (or less, just breath holes) showing.
    Perhaps all of us should start wearing those abayas and niqabs, as a defense against the proliferation of security cameras everywhere we go.

    Quote Originally Posted by kyli_ryan View Post
    Also-- Obviously it wouldn't be forbidden by law-- and if by "upper classes" you mean non-muslims who have controlled the territory of Morocco in the past, then yes... that would make since. But I'm absolutely positive that by muslims, the hijab would never be frowned upon, as it is an integral part of the main facet of islam--- which is prayer--- and required for female participation in it.
    I can understand how some women would want to wear the hijab for modesty in public, but why in the privacy of their home, for something like prayer? It makes it seem they are trying to hide themselves from God.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyli_ryan View Post
    I just need to keep asking myself why I always feed the damn trolls.
    This is a deliberate insult and insults are against the rules and may lead to banning.

  4. #124
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyli_ryan View Post
    Yes, in most larger cities, younger women are not wearing hijab-- until maybe they are married. In Istanbul, which I know is not exactly as "muslim" oriented as other places, this is the practice as well--- but still, the option of wearing it shouldn't be taken from them, just because it is seen as some kind of "symbol."
    According to statistics, the habit of not wearing an hijab doesn't change after they marry.
    It's just that it is a thing of the past that older, more conservative or less litterate people prefer.

    But you knows, the times, they are a changin...

    ----

    Once again, I consider it a very personal choice and will never judge anybody based only on that.
    But as a whole, I think that if the habit of wearing an hijab decreases gradually amongst the younger generation, it's not necessarily a sign of moral decadence. On the contrary, I'd say that it means Moroccan women feel less threatened by men. Or that Moroccan men are gradually learning how to behave even in front of women, and respect them the way they are. Like a devout Muslim friend once said to me, I don't think that it means a decrease of religiousness -not at all-, but rather it should be taken as a sign of social maturity.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelchairdoug View Post
    Just as a profile picture and frequent positive mention of one's head of state symbolises the Stockholm Syndrome where a citizen takes on the values of their country? How is taking on the values of one's country of residence or birth any different than taking on the values of one's religion?
    My country is a prosperous, successful liberal democracy and doesn't oppress me, whereas Islam oppresses women and children and wages jihad against democracy.

  6. #126
    Senior Member kyli_ryan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Islam oppresses women and children and wages jihad against democracy.
    ISLAM oppresses? or the cultural interpretation of Islam? How about you try to prove it within the doctrine of the religion and see what you find...?

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Perhaps all of us should start wearing those abayas and niqabs, as a defense against the proliferation of security cameras everywhere we go.
    Your fear of this is totally imaginary. If there was any rational basis to it, the Boston bombings wouldn't even have happened. Both the FBI and CIA were warned, and these men were able to walk free to commit their acts of terror.

    If anything, the American gov't is afraid of being seen as authoritarian, not truly authoritarian.

    I understand that symbolic or cultural rebellion is arousing, but let's not get carried away. Less Ni/Fi, more Te. Thanks.

    I can understand how some women would want to wear the hijab for modesty in public, but why in the privacy of their home, for something like prayer? It makes it seem they are trying to hide themselves from God.
    Women's hair is seen as sexually arousing. In fact biologists have said that one of the things women can do to attract men is have long hair; younger fertile women also have shinier fuller hair than old ladies, even though most women don't go bald like men are more prone to.

    It's all about sexism, but I still don't see it as harmful if it's strictly viewed as a symbolic religious act in the privacy of one's home or mosque.

  8. #128
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Your fear of this is totally imaginary. If there was any rational basis to it, the Boston bombings wouldn't even have happened. Both the FBI and CIA were warned, and these men were able to walk free to commit their acts of terror.

    If anything, the American gov't is afraid of being seen as authoritarian, not truly authoritarian.

    I understand that symbolic or cultural rebellion is arousing, but let's not get carried away. Less Ni/Fi, more Te. Thanks.
    The goal is not symbolic or cultural rebellion, and has nothing to do with the Boston bombings. More and more public places nowadays have cameras that record the comings and goings of passers-by. I just don't like the idea that I can be identified or even tracked that way. Yes, I value modesty, but I value privacy and anonymity far more.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyli_ryan View Post
    ISLAM oppresses? or the cultural interpretation of Islam? How about you try to prove it within the doctrine of the religion and see what you find...?
    Like any totalitarian doctrine, Islam is self validating.

    But worse, any attempt to criticise Islam from the outside is life threatening.

    And even worse, the 57 countries of the OIC (Organistion of Islamic Co-Operation) are trying, at the United Nations, to make criticism of Islam an international crime.

    But why should we be surprised when the OIC have openly and publicly rejected the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in favour of Sharia?

  10. #130
    Senior Member kyli_ryan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Like any totalitarian doctrine, Islam is self validating.

    But worse, any attempt to criticise Islam from the outside is life threatening.

    And even worse, the 57 countries of the OIC (Organisation of Islamic Co-Operation) are trying, at the United Nations, to make criticism of Islam an international crime.

    But why should we be surprised when the OIC (Organisation of Islamic Co-Operation) have openly and publicly rejected the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in favour of Sharia?
    Wow, you really got the religious doctrine down. Once again-- you are using governmental and cultural bodies to define a religion. Go to the texts of the religion and try to continue your claims about oppression, etc... then you may hold some weight in your arguments...

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