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  1. #101
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    Delusion and Misogyny

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelchairdoug View Post
    If you honestly think that, then you're delusional.
    The hallmark of patriarchy is the hatred of women. And it was Dr Germaine Greer who pointed this out to us for the first time in 1970. It fell like a bombshell and has only been confirmed since.

    We have seen the misogyny in Catholicism, in Islam and in Hinduism.

    But today we are attacking the misogynists, even in the Australian Parliament, just click on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihd7ofrwQX0

    And not content with attacking the misogynists in our Parliament, we continue the discussion in our Sydney Opera House, just click on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8DXvaHrh3k

  2. #102
    Senior Member captain curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The hallmark of patriarchy is the hatred of women. And it was Dr Germaine Greer who pointed this out to us for the first time in 1970. It fell like a bombshell and has only been confirmed since.

    We have seen the misogyny in Catholicism, in Islam and in Hinduism.

    But today we are attacking the misogynists, even in the Australian Parliament, just click on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihd7ofrwQX0

    And not content with attacking the misogynists in our Parliament, we continue the discussion in our Sydney Opera House, just click on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8DXvaHrh3k
    If you're going to list such divisive persons and then proceed to state that they are hated because they are women, I stand by my claim that you're delusional. Either that, or you're simply pulling an Ann Coulter yourself and milking this thread to get on your own soapbox. Or you're just not as intelligent as you wish to be.
    Jarlaxle: fact checking this thread makes me want to go all INFP on my wrists

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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyli_ryan View Post
    The point is that modesty is something that Allah commands for all Muslims. The cultural and/or personal interpretation of this has a lot less to do with being "Muslim" and a lot to do with personal/family choice. I don't think it's fair to mandate how someone practices their faith. Many women choose to wear more covering because the idea of the hijab (or other forms of modesty) are used to protect women. When women choose and control what is seen of them on public, not only does it allow them am extra power, but it also protects against negative actions toward them or prejudging based on physical appearance rather than mental capacity. I don't have a problem at all with the hijab, and i personally enjoy wearing it.
    The hijab and a headscarf are quite different in shape. And they are quite different in intent.

    For instance, a headscarf may well be used for modesty, but the hijab is plainly a religous symbol. And it symbolises not only a religion but its ideology of jihad.

  4. #104
    Senior Member kyli_ryan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The hijab and a headscarf are quite different in shape. And they are quite different in intent.

    For instance, a headscarf may well be used for modesty, but the hijab is plainly a religous symbol. And it symbolises not only a religion but its ideology of jihad.
    Besides the fact that I didn't use "headscarf" in my post... the hijab is not a "religious SYMBOL"... it's the outcome of a religion which favors modesty. Also, you might want to look of the meaning of this "JIHAD" that you keep throwing around as though you have a definition and a conceived idea of what it means in Islam. You're not talking about a religion, you're talking about cultural interpretation. So kindly get educated.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyli_ryan View Post
    Besides the fact that I didn't use "headscarf" in my post... the hijab is not a "religious SYMBOL"... it's the outcome of a religion which favors modesty. Also, you might want to look of the meaning of this "JIHAD" that you keep throwing around as though you have a definition and a conceived idea of what it means in Islam. You're not talking about a religion, you're talking about cultural interpretation. So kindly get educated.
    The hijab is even discouraged in peaceful Muslim countries like Morocco.

    However, I have no problem with the hijab. I see women wearing it, it does not bother me, what bothers me are women draped in black with only their eyes (or less, just breath holes) showing.

  6. #106
    Senior Member kyli_ryan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    The hijab is even discouraged in peaceful Muslim countries like Morocco.

    However, I have no problem with the hijab. I see women wearing it, it does not bother me, what bothers me are women draped in black with only their eyes (or less, just breath holes) showing.
    Hijab is "discouraged"? ... No, I don't think so. Moroccans and other North African countries still have a lot of the female population wearing their hijab. I think it's clear that what this forum refers to is the wearing of hijab in ALL public settings versus the common use of it being worn only in very crowded, very male populated scenes... and also--- it is REQUIRED in Islam during prayer... so I'm absolutely positive it is never discouraged.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyli_ryan View Post
    Hijab is "discouraged"? ... No, I don't think so. Moroccans and other North African countries still have a lot of the female population wearing their hijab. I think it's clear that what this forum refers to is the wearing of hijab in ALL public settings versus the common use of it being worn only in very crowded, very male populated scenes... and also--- it is REQUIRED in Islam during prayer... so I'm absolutely positive it is never discouraged.
    It's not forbidden by law, but yes it's not encouraged and it's socially frowned upon by the upper classes.

    I don't know where you live or if you're Muslim, but something about what you're saying makes me think you're a Western liberal instead.

    I could be wrong, though.

  8. #108
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The hijab and a headscarf are quite different in shape. And they are quite different in intent.

    For instance, a headscarf may well be used for modesty, but the hijab is plainly a religous symbol. And it symbolises not only a religion but its ideology of jihad.
    Some of my former female students in Morocco were wearing an headscarf, and they weren't necessarily the most religious of all. The issue seems more complex than that, socially speaking.
    And not every devout Muslim is a potential jihadist, or else, I wouldn't have survived so long there or even befriended any North African.

    For instance, in Casablanca, bars are everywhere. You can find a store selling wine, beer or whisky every 500 feet (And Moroccan wine happens to be excellent, even from a French perspective). Bottles are even freely avalaible in every supermarket. Do you really think this is a good clue that Jihadists might live around there?

    Official Moroccan statistics pretend that 90% of the wine they produced is consumed by foreigners, but of course, it's utter nonsensical propaganda when you observe the real life of the locals.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The hijab and a headscarf are quite different in shape. And they are quite different in intent.

    For instance, a headscarf may well be used for modesty, but the hijab is plainly a religous symbol. And it symbolises not only a religion but its ideology of jihad.
    When Victor is right he's right.


    "This issue isn't really about religion, its about politics," he says.

    "The headscarf for women is a political symbol, in the same way as the beard is for men. But we in the ministry must be very careful that the books are fair to all Moroccans and do not represent just one political faction."
    EDIT: Oh oopsie...did I do that? Tee hee.

  10. #110
    Senior Member kyli_ryan's Avatar
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    I'm not a western liberal. I'm engaged to a North African man and a convert to Islam. I have personal contact with Moroccans and North Africans and am not trying to pick apart your arguments for the sake of a judgement. It's solely for the purpose of getting rid of some of the ignorance that surrounds these issues and their interpretations.

    Also-- Obviously it wouldn't be forbidden by law-- and if by "upper classes" you mean non-muslims who have controlled the territory of Morocco in the past, then yes... that would make since. But I'm absolutely positive that by muslims, the hijab would never be frowned upon, as it is an integral part of the main facet of islam--- which is prayer--- and required for female participation in it.

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