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  1. #91
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    It doesn't matter. I don't "fetishize" Ann Coulter, but I'm objectively capable of seeing her as an attractive middle aged woman, despite the fact that she too is obnoxious, full of herself, disagreeable, says things that make no sense, bullies others, and I am not a lesbian.
    Nobody can be objective when you're on your own. Not even me.

    I'm not objective, and never pretented I was. Since I am my very own subject I am therefore, by definition, totally subjective.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Nobody can be objective when you're on your own. Not even me.

    I'm not objective, and never pretented I was. Since I am my very own subject I am therefore, by definition, totally subjective.
    Ann Coulter is not ugly. She photographs well. She does not look her age. I can objectively see how some men find her attractive. Some intellectual apparently wrote an entire book on how her beauty seduces people, because she's a pundit, and clearly that's her only objective: to be a pundit who attracts attention and does not care whose morality she corrupts in doing so.

    Numerous, numerous women also have agreed that Putin is an attractive man and his hold on Russian women in particular is phenomenal, but I've also had other American women agree with me that he's good looking, without giving any credence to his character, his politics, or how realistic his photo shoots are.

    When people are good looking, it can give a halo effect, that allows people with completely corrupt morals or a vile personal agenda to get a foot hold.

    Apparently Hitler was so attractive to women of his day, two killed themselves over him.

    Don't get me wrong, there are famous people who are supposedly "beautiful" who I do not understand: namely the cast of Twilight. Robert Pattison to me is too pale and does not look healthy, and Kristen Stewart looks like a cute but surly 12 year old boy, and there's absolutely nothing striking about her; to me she's just kind of average pretty.

    But I'm also not going to say Kristen Stewart is ugly.

    No, no one is completely objective. But some people are much more swayed by things like in-group politics when appraising a person's appearance.

  3. #93
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Seriously man, I think you've got issues, or you're trolling me. You're willfully ignoring my point, or cannot grasp it. My point is that people can be physically attractive or exude charm without being otherwise likable in any way.

    You're trying to persuade me to take back what I said about Putin.
    Absolutely not. I even said you're free to think whatever you want or fetishize whoever you want, I don't mind.

    I don't even pretend to be right or to be "objective" just like you claim to be.

    I have my own (subjective) opinion about Putin, and as I said, I have the right to express it. The sooner you'll understand I'm not trying to contradict you, the better.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Absolutely not. I even said you're free to think whatever you want or fetichize whoever you want, I don't mind.

    I don't even pretend to be right or to be "objective" just like you claim to be.

    I have my own (subjective) opinion about Putin, and as I said, I have the right to express it. The sooner you'll understand I'm not trying to contradict you, the better.
    In response to me saying that Putin was handsome you said "he's an authoritarian dwarf."

    Okay. He's authoritarian. I know that already. He's also 5'7". That's not a "dwarf."

    You were somehow morally outraged by me saying he was handsome and were trying to correct my perception.

    I'm done with this conversation. Don't try to turn it around on me.

  5. #95
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post

    You were somehow morally outraged by me saying he was handsome and were trying to correct my perception.
    No, I wasn't trying to correct YOU, I was simply expressing my own opinion about the man. You're not the only one here to have an opinion about Putin: I've been plenty of times in Russia and my partner is Russian. But it is suddenly forbidden by any kind of decree to have one, or do you think you're always objective and that anybody who dares to disagree with you (even the slightest) makes it on purpose, to annoy you or for so-called moral reasons?

    You're not the center of the world. Even if I have to recognize your obstination to teach me lessons is quite entertaining.

    Most ENTP I've seen here are born Anarchists. Tell me: have you ever succeeded to convert anyone of them to your preachings? Has anybody succeeded here?
    Do you realize how difficult your task could be?
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    No, I wasn't trying to correct YOU, I was simply expressing my own opinion about the man. It is suddenly forbidden by decree, or do you think you're always objective and that anybody who dare to disagree with you (even the slightest) make it on purpose to annoy you or for so-called moral reasons?

    You're not the center of the world. Even if I have to recognize your obstination to teach me lessons is quite entertaining.

    Most ENTP I've seen here are born Anarchists. Tell me: have you ever succeeded to convert anyone of them to your preachings? Has anybody succeeded here?
    You're the person preaching, son. You're preaching about Putin, and it's bizarre that you don't see my point. You are just willfully ignoring what I'm saying, it's fucking bizarre.

    I have a hard time believing you're even serious. My point is that Fe evaluates beauty based more on ethics or in-group norms, and that some people don't do this.

    They just don't.

    It doesn't mean that who they are SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO is objective; no sexual attraction and fetishes are not objective.

    However, some people yes are objectively better looking than others. And since you're opposed to both Te and Se, that's not going to sit well with you probably.

    Admittedly though, Se tends to think it has the last say on what is "reality" and of course Se is as subjective as any other perceiving function.

    Yes, calling Putin an "authoritarian dwarf" is a moral argument. You also saying he seems less powerful in person is a charisma/social schema argument. It doesn't make his younger face any less handsome, or his photo ops less convincing.

    Authoritarian is making his looks about his politics, and dwarf is factually incorrect. 5'7" is on the short end of average height for a man, my ESFJ ex is actually 5'7" I think. 5'7" or 5'8".

    Dwarfism, people tend to have stunted body parts and be below five feet tall, usually somewhere in the three or four foot range.

    YOUR ARGUMENT WAS EMOTIONAL. Which is why I suggested Fe. But apparently conversations about Jungian functional perceptions and judgments are offensive to you.

    I was contrasting him to Ann Coulter for a very good reason. You missed my point.

    Have a day, "anarchist." I don't even know what you're going on about now, but it just seems very silly to me.

  7. #97
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    Also, FTR, if you *quote me* about *my own opinions* I'm going to respond AS ME to you about MY OPINIONS.

    That's not "preaching." That's you attempting to engage me into a debate, and getting annoyed that I won't acquiesce to you.

    So if you don't want to debate, don't quote me. Don't talk to me. Put me on ignore if you don't like my posts.

    This is a free forum. No one puts a gun to anyone's head and makes them refuse to use the ignore function, or quote people they disagree with.

    You're acting like I came to your personal profile wall or PM'd you and plastered pictures of Putin there. Or like I quoted you first, and began contradicting you.

    And I did not. You are the one trying to persuade me with emotional arguments. And I won't be had.
    @Blackmail! ...and anyone else who does this. You know who you are.

  8. #98
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    You're the person preaching, son.
    Prove it.

    You're preaching about Putin, and it's bizarre that you don't see my point.
    It's not that I don't see your point, it's just that I don't agree with it.

    I accept your point of view from your own perspective so please, accept mine from my own perspective too.


    You are just willfully ignoring what I'm saying, it's fucking bizarre.
    How many people dare to disagree with you everyday? I mean: on any possible subject? For instance: you prefer coffee?/ I prefer tea... With one sugar for you?/ no sugar for me... and so on...
    Do you think all of them are "willfully ignoring" what you're saying to them?

    I have a hard time believing you're even serious. My point is that Fe evaluates beauty based more on ethics or in-group norms, and that some people don't do this.

    They just don't.

    It doesn't mean that who they are SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO is objective; no sexual attraction and fetishes are not objective.

    However, some people yes are objectively better looking than others. And since you're opposed to both Te and Se, that's not going to sit well with you probably.

    Admittedly though, Se tends to think it has the last say on what is "reality" and of course Se is as subjective as any other perceiving function.
    What I find it hard to believe is that you pretend to have an objective way to measure beauty or attraction... Art for instance is an autotelic activity. So does the contemplation of beauty.
    It's amazing.
    But what I find even harder to believe is that you pretend to have an objective way to measure whatever or whoever I should find beautiful or attractive.

    Yes, calling Putin an "authoritarian dwarf" is a moral argument. You also saying he seems less powerful in person is a charisma/social schema argument. It doesn't make his younger face any less handsome, or his photo ops less convincing.
    If you say so.

    Authoritarian is making his looks about his politics, and dwarf is factually incorrect. 5'7" is on the short end of average height for a man, my ESFJ ex is actually 5'7" I think. 5'7" or 5'8".
    He's much smaller than that. 5'7" is sheer propaganda, and once again, it tells a lot about the impression the man wants to give and how he lacks confidence.

    I'm not very tall myself. I'm barely average. But he looked at least one head smaller than me.

    And Medvedev is even slightly smaller. And believe me, in Russia, such smallish persons are difficult to find. And that is an objective fact, because I can scientifically prove it (I'm a scientist, remember).

    Dwarfism, people tend to have stunted body parts and be below five feet tall, usually somewhere in the three or four foot range.

    YOUR ARGUMENT WAS EMOTIONAL. Which is why I suggested Fe. But apparently conversations about Jungian functional perceptions and judgments are offensive to you.
    Does any political joke necessarily involve deeeeeep emotions?

    Morality makes light of morality!

    I was contrasting him to Ann Coulter for a very good reason. You missed my point.

    Have a day, "anarchist." I don't even know what you're going on about now, but it just seems very silly to me.
    Are you telling me that anybody who will "miss your point" will necessarily and objectively look silly?

    Once again, if you say so.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  9. #99
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    I have you on ignore now, so keep debating with yourself. I'm not even going to bother to view post.

  10. #100
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    @Blackmail! ...and anyone else who does this. You know who you are.
    What is this "You know who you are" supposed to mean?

    Yes, it's me. I never tried to hide under a false identity.

    So?
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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