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  1. #11
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasoline View Post
    well if you are going to get emotional about it, perhaps you should start your own thread.
    Question: are you able to withstand a rational debate? Or do you have another specific agenda in mind?
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  2. #12
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    I really think it depends. If you're in love, you're willing to do and think crazy things to be with that person.

    I don't think she's pathetic for switching religions--people do that a lot. The reality is, if the religion was that important to them, they wouldn't fall in love with someone outside of it. If they're like most people--a bit lost on the whole process, not really as devoted as they ought to be, etc.. God is God is God to a lot of people.. and changing the way you worship God is sometimes easier to change than to throw emotions out the window. We're emotionally driven beings. You might as well ask someone to stop breathing. They'll swim all day, every day, if it meant they still get to breathe, even if they used to live on land.

    And there are a lot of family conditions that are affected by religious views. Mothers that wouldn't ever approve of a marriage and make it harder on the marriage to succeed, communities that would treat her as an outsider, etc. Maybe she isn't very religious to begin with. Or maybe she is, but she's so in love that she's willing to change an entire personal philosophical view just to be with that person. Whatever it is, there are many motivations for changing religions that are just plain practical. (Like laws that blackmail spoke about, family interactions, and consistency with child care, food preparation, and household morals.)

    It is also much more likely for a woman to change a religion than for a male. Males just seem, more often than not, to not want to budge with the things they want in life. They'd rather not budge and support a nagging woman that was pretty much forced to change if she wanted to be with him, than for them to change and need support from their spouse.

    I do know a girl IRL though that is quite what I would consider pathetic. She changed religious views about 3-4 times for boyfriends... not people she intended on marrying.. just boyfriends. I think there's some major introspection that needs to take place there.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Question: are you able to withstand a rational debate? Or do you have another agenda?
    no, im not going to get into discussion of you psychologically analyzing me, when thats not the intent of this thread. if you want to get caught on that, than thats fine but do it in your own thread with your own time other than that. peace out bro
    "I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations and you're not in this world to live up to mine. "
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  4. #14
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasoline View Post
    no, im not going to get into discussion of you psychologically analyzing me, when thats not the intent of this thread. if you want to get caught on that, than thats fine but do it in your own thread with your own time other than that. peace out bro
    What is the real intent of this thread, then?

    I have already lived in a few predominantly Muslim countries (although I'm not Muslim myself), so I think I could tell you lot of stories and anecdotes about the subject of converting to Islam (or not). But, of course, if you're not here to debate and to exchange ideas, but only there to get an opportunity to tell us how much you hate those "shitty" countries, how "pathetic" these people are and so on... well... that's not the same discussion.

    Is it too difficult to understand?
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  5. #15
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    My sister tried to do this. I was just talking about this in another thread. My sister married a Muslim man she barely knew in about 2002 or 2003, it wasn't long after 9/11, and she started studying Islam.

    At which point she became horrified, realized she could never accept it as a religion, told me all about it, told me that her husband's friends scared her, and I think the straw that broke the camel's back was when the FBI came knocking on my mom's door.

    I'm always surprised that so many Western women who were already young adults when the shit went down have internalized the romanticism of it so much, to such an intense degree, because I was in my early 20s when it happened, and I have no such delusions, it seems like my personality was already so formed that I viewed it more like a rational adult, neither being able to hate Muslims blindly like so many conservatives, but neither romanticizing it.

    However, I have always romanticized Russia, being a child of the end of the Cold War, and my math professor found it a bit mysterious and appalling, having been someone who immigrated to the U.S. as a 25 yo man following perestroika, so he told me all of these horrible stories to try to knock some sense into me, he said I was as bad as his daughter, and he couldn't figure out why, because she left Russia too young to remember living there, but that I reminded him of her in my romanticization (is that even a word?)

    Yet after knowing me for a few months, he said you know what, I actually think you're capable of actually putting up with a Russian man, or something along those lines, like he was surprised of the content of who I actually am after he got to know me. He still warned me a lot about really bad aspects of Russian culture, and he was like, I want you to think of them more like Asian sexist brutes than romantic Europeans from a Dostoevsky novel, unless they're intellectuals.

    Interestingly, after I moved to Los Angeles, I ended up knowing so many Russians I realize I do overall really like them and their culture, I could probably live there temporarily if I could learn the language; however I have met a couple of guys like the brutes he described, and they are pretty appalling.

    That's why my sister divorced her Muslim husband, btw, once she was married to him she realized that he was so rough with her and treated her like property, it was a huge culture shock that she never factored in realistically, because he was actually from the Middle East, he didn't grow up in the U.S.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I dunno. I'm pretty sure Protestant and Catholic men and women have been doing it for a long time. Guess it just depends on your priorities.
    Yup.

    Been in love twice with protestants.

    I already knew how that would end.


    The troubles of this world *sigh*

  7. #17
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    i mean.. women join cults or whore themselves out because of love so it doesn't sound that crazy to me. my mom converted to judaism when she married my dad, pretty much abandoned it after they got divorced though (unless she's around a jewish person and she'll identify as jewish lol.)

  8. #18
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasoline View Post
    well yea, but its more of a throw back
    I'm certain it can be. It probably depends a lot on culture and sect and individuals. There are branches of my religious sect that are what I would consider oppressive of women and my own branch teaches that wives should submit to their husbands, etc. Sometimes it's an issue, especially when there are marital problems, but a lot of couples have fairly egalitarian relationships and there are a lot of couples that give the submission thing lip service, but the wife rules the roost for all intents and purposes (and sometimes resents doing it, if you can believe that). But I've also seen men try to get their wives or girlfriends to convert to the oppressive branches because they want to control how they dress, etc.

    Personally, where I'd be careful is having children with someone from a culture or country that considers children the property of the husband, or heck, marrying someone with a lot more money than you in the US. It makes it too easy for your husband to take your kids if you split up. My husband's aunt's Protestant Filipino husband used this to get her to stay with him despite his abuse and infidelity. Of course, my white nominally Protestant uncle did the same thing to his white Protestant wife except only using his political connections and death threats. And both women had at least master's degrees.

    So I'm not in a huge hurry to throw stones at other folks' religions and cultures when it comes to this kind of stuff. Glass houses and all that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yup.

    Been in love twice with protestants.

    I already knew how that would end.


    The troubles of this world *sigh*
    They were pretty adamant about teaching us not to date people outside our branch of Protestantism, if not our denomination, for fear that we'd leave or have marriage problems when I was a teenager. Of course I don't think most people really paid much attention at that age.

    I was lucky enough to find a partner of my denomination young and even luckier that we're compatible and that, despite some of our beliefs changing over the years, we're both still close enough to the same beliefs that we're still on the same page. When you've got the whole priesthood of the believer and sola scriptura thing going on you can end up with all kinds of crazy ideas. It's a lot like Russian Roulette.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I'm certain it can be. It probably depends a lot on culture and sect and individuals. There are branches of my religious sect that are what I would consider oppressive of women and my own branch teaches that wives should submit to their husbands, etc. Sometimes it's an issue, especially when there are marital problems, but a lot of couples have fairly egalitarian relationships and there are a lot of couples that give the submission thing lip service, but the wife rules the roost for all intents and purposes (and sometimes resents doing it, if you can believe that). But I've also seen men try to get their wives or girlfriends to convert to the oppressive branches because they want to control how they dress, etc.

    Personally, where I'd be careful is having children with someone from a culture or country that considers children the property of the husband, or heck, marrying someone with a lot more money than you in the US. It makes it too easy for your husband to take your kids if you split up. My husband's aunt's Protestant Filipino husband used this to get her to stay with him despite his abuse and infidelity. Of course, my white nominally Protestant uncle did the same thing to his white Protestant wife except only using his political connections and death threats. And both women had at least master's degrees.

    So I'm not in a huge hurry to throw stones at other folks' religions and cultures when it comes to this kind of stuff. Glass houses and all that.


    They were pretty adamant about teaching us not to date people outside our branch of Protestantism, if not our denomination, for fear that we'd leave or have marriage problems when I was a teenager. Of course I don't think most people really paid much attention at that age.

    I was lucky enough to find a partner of my denomination young and even luckier that we're compatible and that, despite some of our beliefs changing over the years, we're both still close enough to the same beliefs that we're still on the same page. When you've got the whole priesthood of the believer and sola scriptura thing going on you can end up with all kinds of crazy ideas. It's a lot like Russian Roulette.
    It is nice to hear that you have found enduring love friend :-)

  10. #20
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    For instance, in most Muslim states, it's simply forbidden to marry a Muslim unless you are Muslim yourself. In those countries, converting to Islam is in fact a mandatory bureaucratic procedure, even if these people don't care about religion, not even the slightest. I've witnessed this situation countless times.
    I understood that a Muslim man can marry a non-Muslim woman, but not the reverse. A Muslim woman must marry a Muslim man because her husband is considered somehow responsible for her spiritual life.

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    So I'm not in a huge hurry to throw stones at other folks' religions and cultures when it comes to this kind of stuff. Glass houses and all that.
    Islam is really no worse than Christianity where women are concerned. It seems that more Christians have learned not to take everything in the Bible so literally. I suppose that makes me more inclined to equal-opportunity stone throwing; I'll criticise all of those religions.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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