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  1. #1
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Default 6 Year old punished for parents being tardy.

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow...2506.html?vp=1

    So basically, the summary goes:
    - Parents have new born baby.
    - Parents are late getting kid to school.
    - Kid gets detention during lunch for being late to school.

    So the video and parents are all " :c but SHE didn't do anything wrong, so she doesn't understand why she is being punished."

    I think it's not really so bad. It's an important lesson to know that sometimes you just have to work within the system. It's mass punishment regardless of the reason--and that's pretty common. Kids think they're such individuals, like as long as they stay in their lane never pay attention to everything around them that they'll be fine somehow. It's not so bad to learn early on to let things roll off your back occasionally. "No, dear, you didn't do anything wrong. But we were still tardy. So, go through the motions, and I'll do something special for you at home since it was my fault." They can't change the system that's keeping kids in school just because parents are having trouble adjusting.

    When I was in high school, my father ripped the school a new one because I came home and reported I was in in school suspension for a day because I got into a fight with a boy. He nearly broke my nose with a binder when I mouthed off to him for saying something inappropriate to me. He pushed me a bit, and I pushed back enough for him to fall into a desk, so he threw a binder at my face and it hit pretty hard. I started crying like a little girl because it sucks to get hit in the nose, and then *I* got put into in school suspension for starting the fight. My dad was upset that the boy was getting 1 day of in school suspension and I had 3 to go. He fixed that at the school level, then came home to talk to me. He told me, "You started a fight, you should have reported that to the teacher. But I am glad you stood up for yourself, so don't take that day as punishment. Sometimes you have to put up with things you don't like because you decided to do something that felt right. There's not always rewards for the right thing."

    Am I wrong in thinking that? Is 6 a little harsh to be teaching things like that and I'm just not aware of it because I'm not really a parent? I really don't know why this made news..
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  2. #2
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I think it's ridiculous and cruel. It also doesn't surprise me.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
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  3. #3
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    "The school district maintains its policy is tough but effective. Since instituted, tardies have gone down as much as 90 percent."


    I agree, about learning to operate within the confines of a system. I came to terms with that about the universe very early on. I'm glad to see the parents taking responsibility, as well.

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    The U.S. cultural attitude toward things like time is unhealthy IMO, it's unrealistic and inhuman, I hate the public school system, and I'd like to burn it down.

    Thank you and good night.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    The U.S. cultural attitude toward things like time is unhealthy IMO, it's unrealistic and inhuman, I hate the public school system, and I'd like to burn it down.

    Thank you and good night.



    "We go for work maybe one half hour, two half hour."


    I'm sure you've got an opinion on the alternative to public schooling, care to share?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post


    "We go for work maybe one half hour, two half hour."


    I'm sure you've got an opinion on the alternative to public schooling, care to share?
    Hi. I was an English Lit major/French minor in college who took Education classes (that means "classes to be a teacher") and did in school observations.

    I don't feel like getting into this right now, but I think you might be an ISTJ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Hi. I was an English Lit major/French minor in college who took Education classes (that means "classes to be a teacher") and did in school observations.

    I don't feel like getting into this right now, but I think you might be an ISTJ.

    I've proposed the potentiality more than once.

  8. #8
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    Seriously this is almost IRRESISTIBLE as a debate unless you're a complete troll, why wouldn't you be an ISTJ if you imagine that things like artificial, changing constructs like the present state of the current school system are "coming to terms with the universe" and you actually feel a smug sense of being GLAD THAT THE PARENTS ARE TAKING RESPONSIBILITY since they had a new born baby and got their 6 year old to school late. I mean, how dare them.

    Could you scream Si/Te more? No please. Please scream Si more.

    Look, to make a long story short (it's late) ...the school system hasn't always been like this. It's foul. It's broken. Even old teachers will tell you that the school system is a joke compared to what it once was.

    I'll certainly take this up with you more later, but I really should relax and try to sleep.

  9. #9
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow...2506.html?vp=1
    So basically, the summary goes:
    - Parents have new born baby.
    - Parents are late getting kid to school.
    - Kid gets detention during lunch for being late to school.
    So the video and parents are all " :c but SHE didn't do anything wrong, so she doesn't understand why she is being punished."
    I think it's not really so bad. It's an important lesson to know that sometimes you just have to work within the system. It's mass punishment regardless of the reason--and that's pretty common. Kids think they're such individuals, like as long as they stay in their lane never pay attention to everything around them that they'll be fine somehow. It's not so bad to learn early on to let things roll off your back occasionally. "No, dear, you didn't do anything wrong. But we were still tardy. So, go through the motions, and I'll do something special for you at home since it was my fault." They can't change the system that's keeping kids in school just because parents are having trouble adjusting.
    When I was in high school, my father ripped the school a new one because I came home and reported I was in in school suspension for a day because I got into a fight with a boy. He nearly broke my nose with a binder when I mouthed off to him for saying something inappropriate to me. He pushed me a bit, and I pushed back enough for him to fall into a desk, so he threw a binder at my face and it hit pretty hard. I started crying like a little girl because it sucks to get hit in the nose, and then *I* got put into in school suspension for starting the fight. My dad was upset that the boy was getting 1 day of in school suspension and I had 3 to go. He fixed that at the school level, then came home to talk to me. He told me, "You started a fight, you should have reported that to the teacher. But I am glad you stood up for yourself, so don't take that day as punishment. Sometimes you have to put up with things you don't like because you decided to do something that felt right. There's not always rewards for the right thing."
    - fitting into a system does not mean that punishment should be administered sans hearing the other person's side of the story. think of the court system. we don't just throw people in jail do we? now, I'm not advocating we have a long trials for children every time they get punished, that just isn't feasible. what I am saying is that, if a child thinks they don't deserve to be punished, they should be heard out.
    - fitting into a system means cooperation and a reward/punishment system over what you legitimately have responsibility for. responsibilities must be made clear, but they must also be reasonable.
    - children think they're such individuals because they are individuals. albeit, not fully rational individuals yet capable of making their own decisions, but still individuals. the human race, whether child or adult, is not some mass of collective consciousness.
    - the child is 6. it is not a 6 year old's responsibility to get themselves to school and someone shouldn't be punished for something that is outside of their responsibility.
    - such a system is authoritarian rather than authoritative in nature and encourages unquestioning obedience rather than fostering healthy communication, teaching children why something is wrong and the beginnings of independent reasoning
    - there is a difference between this story and your personal anecdote because you had a choice in the matter; the child does not have control over the parents being late due to a baby (not that I disagreed with your choice. more power to you, whoop his ass! ).


    Am I wrong in thinking that?
    yes

    Is 6 a little harsh to be teaching things like that and I'm just not aware of it because I'm not really a parent?
    yes

    I really don't know why this made news..
    despite not agreeing with your opinion, I find this a bit trivial as well. it's hardly news compared to things like, say, recent bombings and shootings.
    @Marmotini
    The U.S. cultural attitude toward things like time is unhealthy IMO, it's unrealistic and inhuman, I hate the public school system, and I'd like to burn it down. Thank you and good night.
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  10. #10
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    The system in practice here is icky. I still remember the "isolating" type punishments in particular that were used in early school more than any other sort--facing a wall, being separated from the rest at an enormous and empty table, and the like--and not in a useful way.

    But...the payoffs of learning to cope with a system where trouble doesn't always mean you were in the wrong are just so big. To be able to emotionally handle a measure of institutional pain because you know your real story and trust yourself protects you against manipulation by those institutions and makes your values solid and true.

    Sometimes you have to put up with things you don't like because you decided to do something that felt right. There's not always rewards for the right thing.
    This. I'm saving that quote.

    So, the policy can go to hell, and hopefully the attention it's got will lead to a change moving onward. But because we can't change what's already happened, the experience of dealing with it this time can be valuable given love, and perspective, and validation and all those good parental things when she gets home.
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