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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    I let my true self off the leash, I thought you'd enjoy it.
    I enjoy smart ISTJs.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    This is my point entirely though. Isn't there a lesson here that, "Look kid. This school is corrupt--just like any other school you will attend." You have to know that, from an early age. I don't want my kid thinking their school actually cares about them. I want them on the defensive. The parents are the ones that need to be really active in this.. A newborn is completely understandable, and the child isn't going to become a total lump if she's 10 minutes late to her first class EVERY day, more less occasionally.

    They do it because there are kids that meander to classes, parents that don't care as much, etc. And school's are all about numbers and funding. You want free education, that's what you have to deal with in the US. It sucks, plain and simple.
    Oh I can do something about it. I can refuse to teach public school, even with my 3.9 GPA and all of my great ideas, I can refuse to enter into their institutions, and further more, if I give birth to or adopt a child, I can refuse to put them in the public school system.

    I MOST CERTAINLY CAN. In fact I'm pretty sure I'd be easily qualified to home school my children, but I don't want them to miss socialization, so I'd probably have to put them in private schools past a certain age.



    They were going to move to that regardless of if this was passed or not. Tests are easy, inexpensive, and they give quick self-gratification for the people administering it. At least this program had some other benefits--like schools that are total flunk factories being forced to spend 20% of their government aid to provide free tutoring to students that attend those schools.
    Anyone who trusts the public education system entirely without supplementary education and active involvement in the school system itself isn't really getting their child proper education. America just does not educate kids anymore on a public level. Charter schools are on the right track, but they're far and few between.
    So we should just accept it? Like "oh well that's the way it is." NO.



    I don't think it is 'appropriate'. I just don't find it punishment. As much as I hate the school system, they have to deal with the worst from both students and parents now-a-days.. and kids who obey get caught up in that system. It is the parents who have the responsibility to put their foot down.

    My sister's school tried to call us up and demand we bring her clothes because they deemed her inappropriate with what she was wearing. She had on a normal-length skirt (mid-thigh area) and a tank top with a shrug. I had to leave my class early, drive all the way over there, to put a boot in their ass and tell them that the next time that they imply that I allow my sister to dress like a harlot will be the last time they deal with me since I'll go straight to the school board. I told them "I just Walked In Here and I saw shorts shorter than that skirt, cleavage showing, and pants sagging below the asses of little boys running around here. Leave my sister alone, we check what she is wearing before she leaves, and I'm not going to have you making fun of her height and using it as a 'safe' weapon to target someone who MIGHT comply instead of trying to deal with a difficult student that you KNOW won't change their clothes."

    It isn't my sister's fault that she had to deal with all of that, but it was my job to be the buffer between her and her school. That's the price we pay for 'free' crap education. She wasn't being punished for having to work through me to get things done--but that was how we had to play the game.
    I agree with all this. Just watch me. I'll raise some hell. I'm sure I don't have to convince anyone of this.

    Telling your child to work through you when things go wrong at school is not severe.. the school doing whatever they think they have to do is also not severe. It just gets worse from here. Studies are showing school system are creating this disobedient, rebellious kids AND the 'bad' neighborhoods they live in. Work through the system, or find a different one.

    I just don't think this is a big deal. This is rather normal. The kid needs to learn to be very adamant about reporting things to her parents, and getting her parents to take active actions on her behalf. They're the ones with her rights right now. Sure, as she gets older, you start teaching her how to transfer those rights into her own hands, but for now? Nod your head, and then report it straight to me, and I'll put a boot in someone's ass so that you don't have to nod your head anymore.

    I don't see how this is news.
    Because she's only six.


    But she's 6!! Is she really going to be depressed because she ate lunch by herself?! I could get her to dislike authority a little bit... but the RIGHT kind. She isn't going to dislike the authority of her parents.. And yeah, she's going to get a little emo, but she'll get over it. She won't remember this as a traumatizing event.
    I'll have you know I have a brilliant memory of my childhood. Maybe as an Si-rejecting ENFP you remember very little, but I remember things that happened to me when I was three, let alone SIX.

    I can't rationalize that kind of thing. "S/he won't remember it" only applies to a small pool of the child population. You have no idea what they'll remember. Each moment, each minute, each day is more intense and important to a child than it is to an adult who tends to look at life in weeks, months and years, unless they study things like meditation or Zen Buddhism.

  3. #53
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I still remember feeling mortified because I tapped a different kid on the shoulder than I meant to when I was in kindergarten. I was barely five years old. I have only a handful of memories from kindergarten and that one made the cut. It is crazy how emotions like shame and humiliation can cement memories.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  4. #54
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    At least in Texas, you don't have to "qualify" to homeschool your children. I don't even think you have to graduate HS. They have the least stringent homeschool laws in the nation. Here in NC I think you just have to have a HS diploma.

    But I'd at least verify that the public schools wherever you live when you have kids actually do suck before paying out the wazoo for private. At the public charter my daughter went to for her elementary years, the students called the teachers by their first names and there were no desks. In the fourth grade they got an old broken dryer off of Craigslist and spent a couple weeks taking it apart, repairing it, and donating it to a needy family.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I still remember feeling mortified because I tapped a different kid on the shoulder than I meant to when I was in kindergarten. I was barely five years old. I have only a handful of memories from kindergarten and that one made the cut. It is crazy how emotions like shame and humiliation can cement memories.
    I remember injustices from my youth clearly as well. In kindergarten I was consternated by a girl who wouldn't share the jungle gym during recess. As I stood there fuming I let out a "ffffffff." The girl then quickly ran to the teacher to tell on me. When the teacher asked if I had said the f-word I presumed she meant the sound of the letter f since I didn't even know what the f-word was. So when I told her yes she sent me inside for the rest of recess and I was crushed.
    Take the weakest thing in you
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  6. #56
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    There was a kid who terrorized me on the playground in the 1st grade. The usual stuff- kicking sand in my face, pushing me off the swings, etc. He was sneaky enough to do it when none of the playground attendants were looking so he never got in any trouble for it. Told my mom, who took me to get a new pair of sneakers. They were Nikes, the kid's name was Mikey, and she said these could be my Mikey shoes to kick him with if he messed with me again. I honestly do not remember if he did bother me after that, or if I kicked him if he did- what I remember is being taken seriously and having an ally. I think that is SO important for kids.

  7. #57
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Oh I can do something about it. I can refuse to teach public school, even with my 3.9 GPA and all of my great ideas, I can refuse to enter into their institutions, and further more, if I give birth to or adopt a child, I can refuse to put them in the public school system.

    I MOST CERTAINLY CAN. In fact I'm pretty sure I'd be easily qualified to home school my children, but I don't want them to miss socialization, so I'd probably have to put them in private schools past a certain age.
    Yeah, but some people pick and choose their battles. For some people, being a parent is more important to them than if they can afford private schools or if they're smart enough for home schools. And to some people, keeping a kid instead of getting rid of it is more important than the value of education. There are all sorts of perspectives, and to be honest, most people are not planning to have their children when they are fiscally secure enough to properly educate theirs. For some people, education is just not the number one ranking in their lives.

    There are people to fight to put their kids in things like charter schools.. There are poor parents that really want that for their kids. But, like I said, charter schools are too few in number and too high in demand. I don't understand how supply and demand really works anymore because of things like this. There is SUCH a high demand for charter schools, with all the resources to create more... and yet still there are too few. Parents can understand that some schools are flunk factories, and change schools for their kids. To go so far as to say that education is the number 1 priority is admirable, but it isn't really the only way to think.

    So we should just accept it? Like "oh well that's the way it is." NO.
    We as adults should certainly not accept that. But, as a child, it is important to know the way things are, and where you fall into place. It is important to know that as an adult as well--some people feel SO entitled now-a-days, and they ALWAYS fuck themselves over with that entitled behavior. I don't like the shit customer service that comes from Walmart now-a-days.. so I choose to shop else where whenever I can. But I'm picking my battles. I don't care, really, if Walmart is a shitty store. I'm not going to be up there any time soon, protesting how awful their selection got on their grocery items. I'll shop at Trader Joes when convenient, and other smaller places as needed, but That IS the way Walmart is whether I like it or not, and it isn't going to change because I'm not making it change.

    Similarly.. Parents cannot be the ONLY ones protesting school systems. It is going to take all of us, and a major overhaul, to 'fix' some of the very grave and serious issues in the school system. It isn't ideal, and that IS Something I would actively get involved in and protest, but I am not acting like a quiet, obedient sheep for recognizing that, right now, this is the way it is, and that I've got to work within those confines when I need things done.

    It isn't that I am simply accepting it for what it is. But time is a factor in fixing things.. you can't just say, "Well, that sucks. SO IM NEVER GOING TO SCHOOL AGAIN." I still had to go to school even though I disliked the education system's test, and I still made my sister go to school even though I disagreed with much of its policies. (Oh, you should have seen what a fuss I had to create over something as simple as trying to get ICE from a nurse..)

    Shitty education is still better than no education. My parents were not qualified to home school me, and while the school I went to wasn't ideal, to say it didn't benefit me at all is a grave mistake. I did learn some things--just not enough to have me ready for college.

    I agree with all this. Just watch me. I'll raise some hell. I'm sure I don't have to convince anyone of this.
    Of this, I have no doubts my friend.

    I'll have you know I have a brilliant memory of my childhood. Maybe as an Si-rejecting ENFP you remember very little, but I remember things that happened to me when I was three, let alone SIX.

    I can't rationalize that kind of thing. "S/he won't remember it" only applies to a small pool of the child population. You have no idea what they'll remember. Each moment, each minute, each day is more intense and important to a child than it is to an adult who tends to look at life in weeks, months and years, unless they study things like meditation or Zen Buddhism.
    Truth, I really don't remember a ton of things from being that young. I remember some things quite vividly.. but those are few and far between. What I mean to say when I say she won't remember it, is that I highly doubt the memory will be this mortifying thing that changed her adulthood life and the way she grows up. I don't see her sitting in a counseling session to try and fix her 'doormat' personality, and recalling this situation as being a major pivoting point in that. I don't think that just because she feels embarrassed and mortified right now that she will just cling to those negative emotions and allow them to dictate her whole life ahead of her, even if she didn't have the support she needed from her parents.

    I don't see this being THAT bad of a situation. It isn't like the teacher slapped her for being late, or the principle expelled her from the school. She sat alone during a lunch break. It really, really, is not that severe of a punishment. I don't know any parent that hasn't at least punished their kids one time for something only to later figure out the kid didn't actually do it or that there was a perfectly logical explanation for it. Kids can handle things like this... it isn't a life altering situation. I just cannot believe that I was so delicate at that age, or that anyone else is.
    @cafe

    I am sorry, but I sort of giggled at that story.. I don't mean to offend but, honestly, do you STILL feel embarrassed about that situation? Or can you simply remember being embarrassed? Did it really influence you that severely? Did you stop talking to people, and do you still get mortified if you talk to people only to realize it wasn't who you thought they were? It was a genuine, honest mistake... I can't see, even vivid memories, being so haunting in and of themselves.
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  8. #58
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    I would like to believe that only in Texas do people (administrators) make such non-sensical decisions, but it seems to be related to the human condition generally...

  9. #59
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    I find your line of thinking completely alien and dehumanizing, kyuuei. It's basically everything in life I fight against (even though I managed to get through school unscathed). I also don't see what kind of benefit it really brings, "knowing your place" but in a system you think is completely warped...:S surely it would be better to know - even for your adult life - that you can somewhat freely choose between a number of alternative "systems"?
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    @Marmotini
    I do agree that capitalism and corporatism are not the same thing; however, my statement applies to the business world in general, which is fast paced and necessitates timeliness.
    Yeah but you usually can control your effort, you have a deadline, you can choose which train to take, when to wake up for the commute, etc. - so you only learn to go for it when you're personally responsible, not when you're almost completely dependent on someone else.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

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