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  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Anyway, if you're an FSB operative, then let me tell you that yes: I am who you think I am.

    I'm sure you've heard of André Glucksmann's network? That's why I know what you're doing in Chechnya.

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  2. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by unnamed View Post
    I think insane people could not setup 2 bombs...
    They could set up two bombs, but the odds of them both being "insane" is very low; his argument for why they'd be insane doesn't even hold water, seeing as that they never even lived in Chechnya. There are a lot of extremist Muslims, they aren't all "insane" they're people with a very strong conviction that violence is a totally acceptable means to enforcing their culture on to non-believers.

    Even if these guys weren't raised that way (and by all accounts, they weren't, which is another reason Blackmail's argument is just a bunch of biased projection) if they had dispositions to embrace extremism, and they did, and apparently the elder brother was trained, then they were simply two extremists who actively chose that lifestyle as adults, even if it wasn't pushed on them by their parents.

    So I have a very hard time making excuses for either one of them. There are all kinds of desperate Mexicans, Mexicans much poorer and much less privileged than these two schmucks, and they didn't bomb the L.A. marathon.

  3. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    They could set up two bombs, but the odds of them both being "insane" is very low; his argument for why they'd be insane doesn't even hold water, seeing as that they never even lived in Chechnya. There are a lot of extremist Muslims, they aren't all "insane" they're people with a very strong conviction that violence is a totally acceptable means to enforcing their culture on to non-believers.

    Even if these guys weren't raised that way (and by all accounts, they weren't, which is another reason Blackmail's argument is just a bunch of biased projection) if they had dispositions to embrace extremism, and they did, and apparently the elder brother was trained, then they were simply two extremists who actively chose that lifestyle as adults, even if it wasn't pushed on them by their parents.

    So I have a very hard time making excuses for either one of them. There are all kinds of desperate Mexicans, Mexicans much poorer and much less privileged than these two schmucks, and they didn't bomb the L.A. marathon.

    Frankly, if I were a Mexican, there are countless times where I would wonder if I should bomb LA. But fortunately, Wahhabism is not very active in Mexico.
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  4. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    The U.S. is a nation of immigrants, so all those people who can expect to change things with their vote originally came from somewhere else (except for our indigenous people). None of these immigrant groups attempted to assimilate with the original native culture, they imposed their European culture on it instead. We like to think we are more enlightened today, and part of that enlightenment involves not assuming our culture is automatically better than someone else's. The question also remains: just how long must someone or his/her descendents live in a country before they now share that right to change things through voting and other peaceable participation?
    We can't erase colonialism, and I also talk about being part ethnically Cherokee and Shawnee, but yes, some cultures are better than others. I am sorry, but they are. There are stronger, more successful, more educated cultures who should not be dragged down by cultures of sexism and violence. I find the U.S. to be an exception anyway, I don't put the U.S. in the same category as Europe, which is why I defend European nationalism much more than in the U.S.

    However, in the U.S. I still think that our constitution and other major cultural features need to be respected, and I am more tolerant of the mass immigration of Mexicans, simply because they are largely Native American, and California and other parts of the SouthWest were actually once part of Mexico, so I don't have a strong opinion on them...as much.

    It depends on the group. I am the same with Muslims, I don't have any issue with secular Muslims, or even religious Muslims who don't think Sharia laws should be imposed on Western nations, but yes extremist Muslims ARE trying to take over. I'm not sure what you don't get. It's not a secret.


    Where is the line between allowable expression of diverse immigrant cultures, and trying to take over the existing culture? You wouldn't wear a bikini in Saudi Arabia, but should you wear an abaya? Do you need to get your husband's permission for things as Saudi women must, or even allow him to take additional wives? Conversely, if a Muslim woman in France wants to keep wearing an abaya, is this individual preference or a takeover? What about families that want to practice female circumcision in western countries? Obviously, forcing a foreign practice on others is unacceptable, but when, if at all, does the individual practice of differing customs cross this line?
    I wouldn't go to Saudi Arabia. If I couldn't reasonably assimilate, I wouldn't live in a place.

    Trust me when I say that I think Saudi Arabia has a right to exist. I'm not saying that the U.S. should go Americanize other countries, unless those countries seriously are a direct threat to surrounding nations.


    The best way to evangelize is by setting a good example. As the song goes, "They will know we are Christians by our love", not by our pushy evangelism.
    Agreed.

  5. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Frankly, if I were a Mexican, there are countless times where I would wonder if I should bomb LA. But fortunately, Wahhabism is not very active in Mexico.
    I'm glad to see you admitting that extremist Islam is indeed the problem.

  6. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    I'm glad to see you admitting that extremist Islam is indeed the problem.
    It's part of the equation, yes. Russian and US imperialisms are also other very important factors, if not the primary ones. Oil companies, you know.

    Violence feeds on violence.
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  7. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    It's part of the equation, yes. Russian and US imperialisms are also other very important factors, if not the primary ones.

    Violence feeds on violence.
    They aren't the primary ones. Look if Islam could get its power back and have the Ottoman Empire again, it would. Americans and Russians are no more evil than the Ottomans.

    That's why we have to keep an eye on them. They want their power back. So we should just lay down and let them? NO.

    That's the reality of life, that's the reality of human beings, if we aren't this way, then someone else will be, whether it's North Korea or Nazi Germany.

    While there are more peaceful countries and groups of Muslims, many of them aren't and you can't just pretend they don't exist.

  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Cognitive dissonance for whom, and in what way?
    Well, at Melbourne University in Australia, the Muslim Students' Society under the influence of jihad on the internet, make women sit up the back of lecture halls and men down the front.

    This is gender apartheid and humiliates women in a country that gave us Germaine Greer.

  9. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post

    Trust me when I say that I think Saudi Arabia has a right to exist.
    That's where we differ. Saudi Arabia should have never existed at all, if the US wasn't there to back up its corrupt government. Thanks to its massive amount of petrodollars, Saudi Arabia is slowly and viciously destroying the Muslim world.

    The core of the Wahhabi ideology lies there, and like Nazism, it should have been ruthlessly eradicated. It is Wahhabi and Saudian citizens that attacked the WTC, not Iraqis nor Chechens.
    Last edited by Blackmail!; 04-26-2013 at 07:37 AM.
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  10. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Only back in France did I find Islamist zealots eager to convert me. And they were Wahhabis, of course.
    You just keep supporting my own point, that extremists are indeed trying to infiltrate the West.

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