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  1. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by unnamed View Post
    FJ's vs FJ's.
    Plainly, "USA, USA", and "Allahu Akbar", produce cognitive dissonance which is emotionally painful.

    And it is particularly painful for those caught between the two cultures.

    And such emotional pain combined with jihadi ideology can be explosive on the streets of Boston.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Plainly, "USA, USA", and "Allahu Akbar", produce cognitive dissonance which is emotionally painful.

    And it is particularly painful for those caught between the two cultures.

    And such emotional pain combined with jihadi ideology can be explosive on the streets of Boston.
    Here's what bothers me, and I'm going to try to say this as carefully as I can. I am tired of people saying they feel cultural pain while in a place that chose to immigrate to.

    If you choose to immigrate to another country, you should try to assimilate as much as possible. If you don't you're attempting to invade the home culture.

    The reason I defend nationalism at all (and no I do not like it in its extreme or violent forms, racism and murder are not okay) is because of this. Americans have a right to be Americans, and Russians have a right to be Russians, and French have a right to be French.

    In these extremist Islamic sects (and no I'm not bashing Islam as a whole, just the extremist and cult-like versions) they want to "take over" like an insidious force, they literally want to Muslim-ize the cultures of Western countries. It's not that they want to be left alone. Normal Muslims want to be left alone, extremists want to actually invade and take over other countries.

    And I can't believe that people embrace this, that a more extreme form of liberalism defends it as being okay, like its harmless, or like they belong there.

    Like I said in another thread, I don't go to Saudi Arabia and plop down in public in a bikini, so if you'd like to come the U.S. or Russia or any other country where you feel "victimized" then stop acting like you're there to take over the home culture with your own.

    I would never presume to live in another country without trying to assimilate. I just don't even understand the sense of entitlement. Or why it's tolerated by anyone.

    As an aside, the guys who did this? The older one collected welfare from the government. Isn't that swell?

  3. #313
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    Russia Tried To Warn FBI About Tamerlan Tsarnaev

    Tsarnaev was investigated by the FBI in 2011 on a tip from Russia that the immigrant from the Caucasus region might be shifting toward Islamic extremism.
    While cleared of any suspicion of terrorist ties, his name automatically went into at least three federal databases, officials told CNN on Wednesday. Officials confirmed that the CIA also received similar information from Russia a few months later.
    Members of Congress want to know why U.S. authorities didn't monitor Tsarnaev more closely in the ensuing two years that included a six-month trip to the volatile Caucasus region, a hotbed of Islamic insurgency, as well as signs of increasing religious extremism.

  4. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    If you choose to immigrate to another country, you should try to assimilate as much as possible. If you don't you're attempting to invade the home culture.

    The reason I defend nationalism at all (and no I do not like it in its extreme or violent forms, racism and murder are not okay) is because of this. Americans have a right to be Americans, and Russians have a right to be Russians, and French have a right to be French.
    I have to say,what if my Fi feel the country I born form is totally shit?Don't be mad,I am not an American.
    Each Fi could follow different value...

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    Quote Originally Posted by unnamed View Post
    I have to say,what if my Fi feel the country I born form is totally shit?Don't be mad,I am not an American.
    Each Fi could follow different value...
    There are basic things in a culture which make it that culture. You don't have to participate. If you don't like it, you can refrain from joining. If you're American, you can vote to change things.

    But immigrants coming in with the intent to change the cultural landscape of a country is a form of take-over. For about a year now, I've become really disgruntled with whole "tolerance is more important than any other virtue."

    Sure tolerance, good, great, but it doesn't stand alone. Tolerance has to be balanced with clearly defined boundaries or there is no sense of meaning to a culture.

    I've gotten into tangles with liberals who are on that whole Fe bandwagon of tolerance-to-the-point-of-stupidity on other forums, and was accused of trolling or being anti-Muslim.

    Why just on this forum yesterday, someone was basically lecturing me on what an unrealistic view I had of Russians, those horrible people who treat Muslims so badly in their country, yes those horrible people who tried to warn us that a terrorist was in our midst.

    It's become nauseating to me, frankly. I don't hate any race, religion, or skin color, but I'm done with tolerance held up as a supreme virtue.

    Tolerance is not a supreme virtue unless it's rigorously ethically defined.

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    Also note I am not saying that everyone should be conformists and dress the same and all belong to the same religion. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm not saying everybody come to a country and completely change who they are (I have Fi I could never possibly suggest such a thing).

    And immigrants can bring wonderful and much need additions to a culture, I'm not bashing immigration or appreciations of other cultures, I love culture; I'm specifically talking about having the conscious intent to systematically change the host country, like a parasite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post

    But immigrants coming in with the intent to change the cultural landscape of a country is a form of take-over. For about a year now, I've become really disgruntled with whole "tolerance is more important than any other virtue."

    Sure tolerance, good, great, but it doesn't stand alone. Tolerance has to be balanced with clearly defined boundaries or there is no sense of meaning to a culture.

    I've gotten into tangles with liberals who are on that whole Fe bandwagon of tolerance-to-the-point-of-stupidity on other forums, and was accused of trolling or being anti-Muslim.

    Why just on this forum yesterday, someone was basically lecturing me on what an unrealistic view I had of Russians, those horrible people who treat Muslims so badly in their country, yes those horrible people who tried to warn us that a terrorist was in our midst.

    It's become nauseating to me, frankly. I don't hate any race, religion, or skin color, but I'm done with tolerance held up as a supreme virtue.

    Tolerance is not a supreme virtue unless it's rigorously ethically defined.
    "They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper."
    -Quran 4:89

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    Quote Originally Posted by unnamed View Post

    They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.
    -Quran 4:89
    Yeah, I know.

    I've even read blogs by very nice, ethical seeming Muslims that say things like "yes, Muslims do want to take over the world, they do wish sharia law would be everywhere" and they go on to explain in a nice, kind, idealistic manner why this would create a beautiful world, and I'm just kind of like O.M.G.

    You know, Christians do this too, and I'm very opposed to it. Don't think that I'm jiggy with evangelicalism in its rabid form either, cuz I ain't.

    I actually told someone just yesterday that I don't think evangelism is spiritual. I don't mean evangelism in the sense of telling. If you want to talk about your morals or your faith or your beliefs (I sure as hell do) then fine, talk about them. Post blogs, post on forums, stand in public arenas and give speeches...but stop trying to violently, or even pushily, convert anyone. Stop it, just stop it. Don't knock on people's private residential doors. Don't do shit like that. Stop it. Stop it now.

    It's a mistake to be tolerant of people who openly admit they're here to take over. It's like if you invited a guest to your house and they said "hey, from now on I'll be sleeping in your bed and you take the couch, k?" And you take the couch because you don't want to be a bad host.

    It disgusts and enrages me when people of my own culture try to shush me or lecture me on why I should care more about the needs of these people.

    They have a right to say those things, but I am tired of people trying to make me feel like I'm mean because I have morals. Hey I have morals. I actually believe there are things higher than letting people do anything they want. Yes, let people have freedom. But lines have to be drawn. Everything is NOT relative; nuclear war is bad, and extremist Muslims can't be allowed to take over Western countries piece by piece and bit by bit because people are so afraid someone might call them intolerant.

    If this is what people mean when they say everyone becomes more conservative as they get older, then so be it. That's fine, I'll be a moderate conservative, because at least it implies that there are things in life of value that are worth conserving.

    Nihilism just invites jihad, imo.

  9. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Yeah, I know.

    I've even read blogs by very nice, ethical seeming Muslims that say things like "yes, Muslims do want to take over the world, they do wish sharia law would be everywhere" and they go on to explain in a nice, kind, idealistic manner why this would create a beautiful world, and I'm just kind of like O.M.G.

    You know, Christians do this too, and I'm very opposed to it. Don't think that I'm jiggy with evangelicalism in its rabid form either, cuz I ain't.

    I actually told someone just yesterday that I don't think evangelism is spiritual. I don't mean evangelism in the sense of telling. If you want to talk about your morals or your faith or your beliefs (I sure as hell do) then fine, talk about them. Post blogs, post on forums, stand in public arenas and give speeches...but stop trying to violently, or even pushily, convert anyone. Stop it, just stop it. Don't knock on people's private residential doors. Don't do shit like that. Stop it. Stop it now.

    It's a mistake to be tolerant of people who openly admit they're here to take over. It's like if you invited a guest to your house and they said "hey, from now on I'll be sleeping in your bed and you take the couch, k?" And you take the couch because you don't want to be a bad host.

    It disgusts and enrages me when people of my own culture try to shush me or lecture me on why I should care more about the needs of these people.

    They have a right to say those things, but I am tired of people trying to make me feel like I'm mean because I have morals. Hey I have morals. I actually believe there are things higher than letting people do anything they want. Yes, let people have freedom. But lines have to be drawn. Everything is NOT relative; nuclear war is bad, and extremist Muslims can't be allowed to take over Western countries piece by piece and bit by bit because people are so afraid someone might call them intolerant.

    If this is what people mean when they say everyone becomes more conservative as they get older, then so be it. That's fine, I'll be a moderate conservative, because at least it implies that there are things in life of value that are worth conserving.

    Nihilism just invites jihad, imo.


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  10. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post

    But immigrants coming in with the intent to change the cultural landscape of a country is a form of take-over. For about a year now, I've become really disgruntled with whole "tolerance is more important than any other virtue."

    Sure tolerance, good, great, but it doesn't stand alone. Tolerance has to be balanced with clearly defined boundaries or there is no sense of meaning to a culture.

    I've gotten into tangles with liberals who are on that whole Fe bandwagon of tolerance-to-the-point-of-stupidity on other forums, and was accused of trolling or being anti-Muslim.
    Come on... How could you imagine a second that a lonely Chechen madman could "invade" your country, or even have this intention?

    The guy was desperate. I don't mean to excuse him, but if you saw what Russians did to Chechnya, at last you would realize why so many people over there have gone insane.

    Why just on this forum yesterday, someone was basically lecturing me on what an unrealistic view I had of Russians, those horrible people who treat Muslims so badly in their country, yes those horrible people who tried to warn us that a terrorist was in our midst.
    The Russians forces invaded Chechnya (then an independant state). They have reduced their primary city (Groznyi) to a pile of rubble. More than 60% of its surface has been entirely razed, that's more than what happened to German cities during WW2.
    Chechnya is a very small country, with barely only one million inhabitants. But nonetheless, the Russian army managed to kill between 185000 and 270000 civilians there (according to most NGO). One person out of five.

    Tell me, what would you do if you were a Chechen? Your country is occupied, your cities and monuments are volontarily and ruthlessly destroyed, half of the local women have been already raped by Russian soldiers, your relatives are murdered and butchered every day, you don't even know why... And the Russian army has this charming habit of exposing the mutilated bodies (women and children included) in public during a few weeks, so that survivors in the vicinity may eventually "learn their lesson well".

    So, what would you do?

    Do you really think here that the main issue is Jihadism and terrorism?

    It's become nauseating to me, frankly. I don't hate any race, religion, or skin color, but I'm done with tolerance held up as a supreme virtue.

    Tolerance is not a supreme virtue unless it's rigorously ethically defined.
    Do you really think the main issue here is religious tolerance?
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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