User Tag List

First 17252627282937 Last

Results 261 to 270 of 431

  1. #261
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont believe there's any relationship what so ever between soviet communism and ownership or lack there of of semi-automatic weapons. Its bizarre to associate the two, a little like saying that people have elections there will be another Hitler, the correlation and history is so weak that the association should not be made.

    There's A LOT of stupid knee jerk libertarianism, I dont know if its all INTJs so much as a particular age group and section of the population too, I heard some good responses to the worst of the outcry about supposed "fascism" in Boston which highlighted that some of the loudest complainers were the very least likely to be leaving their homes in the first place, unless their internet was temporarily down or their parents were driving them to the shops, and the rest of them are now safe to skate board were and when they like while ungratefully whinging about the police.
    Um, some of them are in their 30s. So by age group I'm not sure what you mean. I've just noticed this from self-typed INTJs, if it's not the gun thing, it's something else, somebody's coming to get them and take away their freedom; of course I see it from other types too, don't get me wrong, it just surprises me most in INTJs. Even with ENTJs I can understand the tertiary Se thing, like maybe they like the idea of weapon collecting as a hobby, something childishly tertiary visceral and making them feel empowered.

    And they explain it as though they think that it's completely rational and not a product of ethics, and also fears about the government.

    I completely understand that you don't want the government to have too much power, but you know, I kind of see it as this thing where business and government should keep each other in check, nobody is better at controlling society, it has to be like a balance of power.

    If it were the 1950's, I might even be a Republican. But as it stands, I find that many of them are operating almost exclusively from paranoia.

    Like they seriously believe that gun control, no matter how mild or rational, is so much more dangerous than crazy, stupid, and immature people having very easy access to very dangerous weapons.

    I don't like a lot of things about government institutions, I mean I don't want to teach public school anymore, but on the other hand I really think some people are so far out to lunch that...I just ...I don't even.

    Yeah, I just don't even.

  2. #262
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,582

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Its incredible to me that people who're able to handle complexity in most topics and issues and positively praise it lose that perspective entirely when it comes to the regulation of their recreation, whether its possessing and using firearms or possessing and using drugs.

    Stupid straw men arguments about complete prohibition or complete permissiveness really dont serve anyone at all.
    Neither does spending money and effort on regulations that just restrict responsible, law-abiding folks without achieving the intended result, whether that be reducing drug use or preventing gun violence. It may be reasonable to accept restrictions on one's liberties that actually work to make the world a safer place. If this benefit does not ensue, however, it is just so much sound and fury from politicians.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    This kind of shit that goes on in the states, these bombings in boston or any of the other meltdown rampages, anyone hear about much of this going on in China?
    Well, over the past few years there has been a spate of knife/cleaver attacks. Counterfeiting seems to be a problem. Then, there are the government-run offenses, like enforced abortions to support the one-child policy, censorship of internet and other media, imprisonment of political dissenters, etc. I'll stay in the U.S. for now, gun violence notwithstanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    People do love their cultural attachments. I'm always surprised when I see INTJs so vehemently defending the American gun culture; however their argument tends to be something along the lines of freedom to choose, a real intense intense fear of authoritarianism....I see this so much in INTJs it kind of baffles me, repeatedly they claim someone is attempting to fence them or someone else in.

    I honestly see a lot more rational acceptance of it from INTPs. A ton more.

    I wonder why. I mean I'm not even a fan of total gun control. I am no extremist by any means, and I logically appreciate the importance of some weapons, but this isn't a slippery slope into Soviet communism if people can't buy semi-automatic weapons.

    America land of the free, home of the paranoid.
    Yep - America is my home. You are right about INTJ paranoia and resistance to authority. We value our independence deeply. The INTPs I know do also, but tend to be more momentarily apathetic about regulation. In other words, if it's not affecting them now, they ignore it. INTJs seem more likely to speak out about the illogic or even injustice of restrictions, whether directly affected or not (tert Fi at work?) In any case, I do not see how it is rational to accept limitations whose costs far outweigh their benefits.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #263
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    The answer is Ni/Fi loop I think.

    An ISFP in an Fi/Ni loop has personal paranoia; people don't like me, people are talking about me, you're an enemy, or maybe something really mild like simply believing that someone harbors animosity toward you unfairly.

    An INTJ in an Ni/Fi loop has world or national level paranoia. Someone in the world is coming to get me, someone in the government is coming to get me, those oppressive leaders are going to try to morally control me, I have a right to defend my Fi.

    But how come so many INTJs on the Internet are having this particular Ni/Fi loop and acting like it's totally Te rational.

    Americans are a paranoid lot in general, but you'd think INTJs would be so self-contained they might resist it, they would see it as unrealistic, but maybe I'm not taking inferior Se enough into account.

  4. #264
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Yep - America is my home. You are right about INTJ paranoia and resistance to authority. We value our independence deeply. The INTPs I know do also, but tend to be more momentarily apathetic about regulation. In other words, if it's not affecting them now, they ignore it. INTJs seem more likely to speak out about the illogic or even injustice of restrictions, whether directly affected or not (tert Fi at work?) In any case, I do not see how it is rational to accept limitations whose costs far outweigh their benefits.
    America is my home too, and I also have resistance to authority, I'm probably freer than any one of you S.O.B's. I'm like the most independent person, I just kind of do as I please within reason, I never went to grad school, I don't have a corporate job, I don't have very much at all tying me down in any way.

    And maybe that's the problem! INTJs, by virtue of being IxTJs, are entrenched so much in the system that their actual daily freedom is less than my own, so they project it outward into things like laws or being scared of the government.

    I'd like for you to explain how costs outweigh benefits, because really, they don't.

  5. #265
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    We can't have real freedom without there being limits. I'm sure anyone understands that, that if there is anarchy, that freedom is stripped away by the survival risks and sheer chaos. Society has to be constructed in such a way that people are free to live their lives, but that there are measures in place to keep people free from the actions of criminals; most people agree that jails or some sort of punishment for criminals is necessary. However, preventing crime is even better. And by crime, I mean someone violating your personal space in a violent way. Rape, murder, theft, terrorism, etc. Cooperation or realizing that other people have rights, too, is not someone clamping down on your freedom.

    As for economic costs, some people have suggested that gun owner's insurance be mandatory, others have suggested that taxes put on gun ownership could be then utilized in the mental health arena, and that way you're killing two birds with one stone: assault weapons and underlying psychological conditions.

    I'm not sure how an assault weapons ban is costing anyone anything. I'm not sure how people are suffering so much if needless weapons are taken away, and of course they aren't going to be "taken away" in a literal sense from responsible sane gun owners, the article I posted showed just how impossible and unrealistic that idea even is, and how gun ownership in the U.S. by private citizens outnumbers that of the government.

    What suffering is it causing? Even if you're a gun collector for historical or cultural reasons, you could collect unloaded weapons or weapons which have no ammunition.

    If you think like a capitalist, an entire controlled industry could be created around weirdos who want to shoot machine guns without joining the military, there could be laws placed around it so it's this separate thing. Like going to a casino.

    No one is suggesting that people take hunters guns away or anything that extreme.

    Anyway, this thread isn't even about gun control, but I've yet to see someone tell me why you think it costs so much to put a ban on assault weapons.

  6. #266

    Default

    I think the reason you might observe INTJs in particular holding this opinion is that as rationals, they're unlikely to support policies which satisfy an emotional need to take action while offering little in the way of practical efficacy. That describes nearly all gun control legislation. It doesn't have to do with guns per se; it's about trading a cow for magic beans.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  7. #267
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    I think the reason you might observe INTJs in particular holding this opinion is that as rationals, they're unlikely to support policies which satisfy an emotional need to take action while offering little in the way of practical efficacy. That describes nearly all gun control legislation. It doesn't have to do with guns per se; it's about trading a cow for magic beans.
    No, I don't think so. I don't believe that self-typed INTJs on the Internet are inherently more rational that Te doms, for example, or Ti doms. So really a flimsy argument. So flimsy.

    If anything, I find the arguments against gun control more emotional than the arguments for it.

    The Economics of Gun Control

  8. #268
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,582

    Default

    I have yet to hear how an assault weapons ban will actually do any good. We had an assault weapons ban for 10 years, and by most accounts, any reduction in crime due to these weapons was negligible. Even before the ban, they were used in a very small fraction of all crime involving guns. Costs come primarily from enforcement mechanisms, but it doesn't matter what these are when weighed against a benefit of zero.

    See the following article from the Wall Street Journal for further details (excerpts below).

    the authors wrote: "the evidence is not strong enough for us to conclude that there was any meaningful effect (i.e., that the effect was different from zero)."
    Since the Federal Assault Weapons Ban expired in September 2004, murder and overall violent-crime rates have fallen. In 2003, the last full year before the law expired, the U.S. murder rate was 5.7 per 100,000 people, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Uniform Crime Report. By 2011, the murder rate fell to 4.7 per 100,000 people. One should also bear in mind that just 2.6% of all murders are committed using any type of rifle.
    A better idea might be to go back to the stipulation in the U.S. Constitution connecting the right to bear arms with a well-regulated militia, and require everyone who has firearms to join their state militia. This will ensure they have thorough training in safe gun use and routine contact with people who could assess their mental fitness; and will ensure an ample supply of volunteers for militia mission needs.

    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    I think the reason you might observe INTJs in particular holding this opinion is that as rationals, they're unlikely to support policies which satisfy an emotional need to take action while offering little in the way of practical efficacy. That describes nearly all gun control legislation. It doesn't have to do with guns per se; it's about trading a cow for magic beans.
    You hit the nail on the head here. Show me a tangible benefit that is worth the cost, and I will support that measure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    And maybe that's the problem! INTJs, by virtue of being IxTJs, are entrenched so much in the system that their actual daily freedom is less than my own, so they project it outward into things like laws or being scared of the government.
    You are grasping at straws here. I work within a system for as long as it supports my own goals and activities. When it ceases to do so, I change it, or leave it. I have the wherewithal to do that, as I suspect do most INTJs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    No, I don't think so. I don't believe that self-typed INTJs on the Internet are inherently more rational that Te doms, for example, or Ti doms. So really a flimsy argument. So flimsy.
    You have piqued my curiosity: you have referred to "self-typed INTJs" several times now. Are you making a distinction between this subset of INTJs, and the rest of us??
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #269
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Come on someone, please impress me. Change my mind with facts. I have yet to see anyone do it.

  10. #270
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,582

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Come on someone, please impress me. Change my mind with facts. I have yet to see anyone do it.
    I provided you with several in the reference above. If you are going to ignore or dismiss them, though, I won't bother finding more. I, too, can be persuaded by facts, but have yet to see any supporting the efficacy of additional gun restrictions, only emotional arguments of the sort you have been using.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

Similar Threads

  1. [NF] A Marathon of Consciousness
    By Prototype in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-15-2010, 01:07 PM
  2. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-22-2009, 08:09 PM
  3. What made my INTJ friend to start marathon training..
    By UnitOfPopulation in forum Health and Fitness
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 01-02-2008, 10:28 PM
  4. Homemade Science Experiment To Create Explosion? (Leftover T3s; codeine?)
    By Usehername in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-16-2007, 02:36 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO