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  1. #71
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Since you haven't been able to come up with any new criticisms, I'll ask another question: what Presidents have done a great job? Bonus points for those that actually tackled challenges vs. sitting on their ass cause nothing pressing needed to be done.
    Polk!

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    what Presidents have done a great job? Bonus points for those that actually tackled challenges vs. sitting on their ass cause nothing pressing needed to be done.
    George Washington is the gimme answer.

  3. #73
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    I'm not seeing "significant" in terms of real damage done.

    Any other President under those circumstances probably would've done the same thing. A significant number would've done far worse. Many would've failed under the challenge a civil war presented. Could you imagine Andrew Jackson as the Civil War President?

    Since you haven't been able to come up with any new criticisms, I'll ask another question: what Presidents have done a great job? Bonus points for those that actually tackled challenges vs. sitting on their ass cause nothing pressing needed to be done.
    Well, my criticisms were serious and accurate. If you don't care about the Constitution, then they won't have much import with you. I also won't give bonus points to "those that actually tackled challenges," because I don't think that using the power of the federal government tends to be a good thing in most cases. Presidents like Lincoln (to an extent), FDR (to a great extent), Wilson (perhaps the most), Dubya (also a lot) are not the greatest, in my opinion. Important men historically, yes, but not great presidents. I like George Washington, the run of Jefferson, Madison, and Monroe, James K. Polk, Grover Cleveland (a personal fave), and Calvin Coolidge.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Polk!
    Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    George Washington is the gimme answer.
    Agreed. He's my #2.

  5. #75
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Yes, jailing dissident journalists is a major problem. A major, unforgivable problem when it comes to human rights. And it set an example for later war-time Presidents to run roughshod over the Constitution. Jailing pacifists and socialists during WWI, internment camps for Japanese-Americans in WWII, every crappy thing that George W. Bush has done in the past seven years. We are all worse off for it.
    I don't know, this sounds like a slippery slope argument. For instance, the war Lincoln had to deal with and the war Bush has to deal with are so different in every vital way that I don't think they are comperable. Just because Lincoln was given the authority then doesn't mean Bush should get the authority now. If anyone does follow that reasoning, then what can I say or do about it? People are stupid. I'm afraid this is a quagmire that faces all legal questions.

    My point is: The reason for distinguishing the two is very clear.
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  6. #76
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Yeah, Mac, if you had seen Mercury's comments in other topics, you'd know that he's not exactly about pro-active presidents. To give you an idea, Grover Cleveland said that the most important thing for a president to do was to simply censure other peoples' bad ideas.
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  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Yeah, Mac, if you had seen Mercury's comments in other topics, you'd know that he's not exactly about pro-active presidents. To give you an idea, Grover Cleveland said that the most important thing for a president to do was to simply censure other peoples' bad ideas.
    I'm not really high on proactive Presidents either, I like reactive ones. Ones that rise to the challenges offered, rather than inventing challenges (like the War on Poverty/Drugs/Terror).

  8. #78
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I don't know, this sounds like a slippery slope argument. For instance, the war Lincoln had to deal with and the war Bush has to deal with are so different in everyway vital way that I don't think they are comperable. Just because Lincoln was given the authority then doesn't mean Bush should get the auhtority now. If anyone does follow that reasoning, then what can I say or do about it? People are stupid. I'm afraid this is a quagmire that faces all legal questions.
    Bush can always argue that the Confederacy had an army and there was a state of war there. Terrorist groups like al-Qaeda do not, so treating them neither as criminals nor as prisoners of war is OK. And they always have the "Lincoln was a great president, and he did the same thing" argument at their disposal. Complete garbage if you ask me, but there are stupid people who buy into the "we're at war!" mentality for everything.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  9. #79
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Just to add this: Samuel Tilden would have been a very good president if he had not been hosed in 1876-77. Bourbon Democrats =
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #80
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Why?
    He left the US in a much stronger position than it was in before he took office.

    He resolved a territory dispute with England. He took care of the problems with Mexico. He signed one of the lowest tariffs in US history.

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