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  1. #41
    facettes de la petite mor Words of Ivory's Avatar
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    As a rule, I won't dance over the graves of the dead.

    Margaret Thatcher was an evil person. She destroyed the loves of millions on the whims of her own ego. Working people suffered like never before under the rule, while she sat in her lovely office with a self serving smile that hid a person or contempt and greed. Much of the country has never recovered from it. The things she did were deplorable, and anyone claiming otherwise is truly deluding themselves.

    Nothing she ever did can ever be justified, nor should it.
    Once success does not justify a hundred failures.

    People are saying that emotions should not be part of our evaluation of her. I ask, how can it not be? How can you simply ignore the countless amounts of suffering that she put people through? She never cared. She never held remorse.

    I won't dance on her grave. That would make me no better.
    Her life has ended. Her memory should be forgotten.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Life calls out the meaning of pure jubilance,
    if you'll only take the time to hear it."
    ~ Words of Ivory ~

  2. #42
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I am proud of our women leaders - Elizabeth I who defeated the Pope of 1588 who wanted to violate her country, and Margaret who defeated the Argentinian Fascists in 1982 at the other end of the world who were violating the Falklands Islanders, and Julia who in 2013 has instituted our Royal Commission into those violating our children.

    The Fascists worship masculinity, they hate women and children.

    Of course mbti was founded by a Fascist worshiper, Carl Jung, who violated his female patients. So it is no surprise to find the followers of Carl Jung are Crypto-Fascists.
    Well if that's not just one big cluster of WTF I dont know what is.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    It is the Catholic Argentinian Fascists who tortured pregnant women, who are sexist. In fact sexism doesn't even cover it - they hated women and worshiped masculinity.
    I wish you'd stop conflating Catholicism and Fascism, there's enough fascists who do that already.

  4. #44
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    Falcarius could not really care for Margaret Thatcher either way: he does not even think she was the best Tory leader of his lifetime let alone all time.

    Domestically her premiership was a catastrophic failure, but most of the things would have happened anyway. The industry was already declining, life expectancy was already going up, interest rates shot up to ever record highs like it was already. Maybe unemployment would not have hit record highs, inequality would not have gone through the roof, and the family unit would not have been decimated.

    Other than for foreign policy, her true legacy is she killed the monetarism experiment and killed the Tories electability (by the time of the next election it will be almost quarter of century since they last won a general election out right, and probably will not win that either the way things are going currently).
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcarius View Post
    Falcarius could not really care for Margaret Thatcher either way: he does not even think she was the best Tory leader of his lifetime let alone all time.

    Domestically her premiership was a catastrophic failure, but most of the things would have happened anyway. The industry was already declining, life expectancy was already going up, interest rates shot up to ever record highs like it was already. Maybe unemployment would not have hit record highs, inequality would not have gone through the roof, and the family unit would not have been decimated.

    Other than for foreign policy, her true legacy is she killed the monetarism experiment and killed the Tories electability (by the time of the next election it will be almost quarter of century since they last won a general election out right, and probably will not win that either the way things are going currently).
    They are unelected and unelectable, I strongly believe that, the whole effort to rehabilitate Thatcher and Thatcherism is really a reflection of the fact that the Tories have realised that the electorate will never, ever buy the whole Thatcherism in drag which has been on offer since she left government.

    I dont believe it was the end of monetarism though, it should be history, along with a lot of other free market doctrines but it wasnt. I would accept and I tried to make it clear in my own posts that there is a corrupted version of Thatcherism in the political moves of other politicians, some of them dont want to favour privatisation because they think it is good for the economy or business, they think it makes them less directly responsible and accountable for the state of the nation.

    The thing about any policy is that its generally a better idea if its adopted because it will be objectively pursued on a consensus basis across the life of different parliaments and possibly different administrations, that was definitely not what happened when privatisation was adopted for ideological reasons by the Thatcher administration and then adopted by others in an opportunistic way.

  6. #46
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I wish you'd stop conflating Catholicism and Fascism, there's enough fascists who do that already.
    There are left wing catholics as well as apolitical catholics, and there are right wing catholics. And it was the right wing catholics who formed the backbone of fascism in Europe and South America.

    For instance, in 1929 the Italian fascists made the Pope Head of State.

    And it is because the Pope is Head of State that the Australian Royal Commission cannot gain access to the Pope's archives detailing child abuse within the church across the world.

    Also because the Pope was made Head of State by the fascists the Australian Royal Commission cannot even question the Pope about global child abuse in the church.

  7. #47
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    Some people prefer to live in a dream world than in reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    There are left wing catholics as well as apolitical catholics, and there are right wing catholics. And it was the right wing catholics who formed the backbone of fascism in Europe and South America.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/304516.stm

    Thatcher stands by Pinochet

    Baroness Thatcher thanked Pinochet for his help in the Falklands

    Baroness Thatcher has visited General Pinochet at the home where he is staying under house arrest near London - and talked of the "debt" she believes the UK owes him.

    The former UK prime minister met with the one-time Chilean dictator in a rare public appearance televised live from the house in Wentworth, Surrey.

    General Pinochet is staying in the rented mansion during his legal battle to avoid extradition to Spain.

    Lady Thatcher thanked her old friend for being an ally during the 1982 Falklands War - and for "bringing democracy to Chile".

    "I know how much we owed to you for your help," she said.

    "The information you gave us, communications, and also the refuge you gave to any of our armed forces who were able, if they were shipwrecked, to make their way to Chile."


    Pinochet's wife was present

    She added: "I'm also very much aware that it is you who brought democracy to Chile, you set up a constitution suitable for democracy, you put it into effect, elections were held, and then, in accordance with the result, you stepped down."

    General Pinochet said it was an honour to have Lady Thatcher there at the "simple house" on the estate, and thanked her for her "kindness".

    Seated in a chair and clutching a cane, he told her in Spanish, "This is a small house, but it is full of gratitude to you. It is only a small way to thank you for all your kindness."

    She said she was glad he was "comfortable".

    No absolute immunity

    The televised interview marks the first time the 83-year-old has been seen in public since his arrest on 16 October.

    Margaret Thatcher thanks Pinochet for bringing a new era of democracy to Chile

    Spain is seeking to try him on charges alleging human rights violations during his 1973-1990 regime.

    On Wednesday, the House of Lords ruled that Pinochet had no absolute immunity from arrest as a former head of state.


    Campaigners say Lady Thatcher is "wrong"

    But the Lords also threw out almost all the charges levelled against him, since they pre-dated Britain's adoption of an international law allowing any nation to try anyone accused of torture.

    That left the Spanish case against him consisting of only one count each of torture, conspiracy to torture and murder conspiracy.

    However, Spanish judge Baltasar Garzon on Friday added 30 more cases of torture and murder to the extradition charge sheet against Mr Pinochet.


    Immediately after Wednesday's ruling, Pinochet's lawyers filed an appeal of Home Secretary Jack Straw's December decision to allow Spain's extradition request to go forward.


    Lady Thatcher has campaigned for his release ever since his arrest in London.

    Pinochet was an annual visitor to her home in London after he stepped down from power in 1990, always sending flowers and chocolates on his arrival in England.

    Days before his arrest he was invited for tea at the former premier's home.

  8. #48
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    "Margaret Thatcher's funeral: 23 things you could pay for with £10m
    Margaret Thatcher's funeral will cost around £10m, although we won't know the exact figure - and how much of it is being spent by the state - until afterwards. What else can £10m pay for? Here are some ideas …"

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...ral-10-million

    "322 nurses for a year
    272 secondary school teachers for a year
    320 fire officers for a year
    269 paramedics for a year
    Four months' worth of the state's contribution to the Monarchy
    7,042 households' electricity and gas bills
    25,773 households' annual water bills
    44 libraries
    177,777 jobseekers' allowance claimants
    1,199 students' annual tuition fees
    10 days of arts spending
    Two years of UK foreign aid to Iraq
    Two and a half Leveson Inquiries
    Two weeks of the BBC World Service
    Two years of the Wales Office
    152 MPs' basic salaries
    16,949,152 pints of milk - enough to give everyone in London two pints each
    60% of a Trident missile
    49 days of British forces in the Falklands
    Flights for everyone in the Falklands to the UK and back and a trip up the Shard each. Three times over
    400 black Asprey 'Margaret Thatcher' handbags
    6,079 duck houses for MPs claiming on expenses
    11,111 public health funerals"

  9. #49
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    There are left wing catholics as well as apolitical catholics, and there are right wing catholics. And it was the right wing catholics who formed the backbone of fascism in Europe and South America.

    For instance, in 1929 the Italian fascists made the Pope Head of State.

    And it is because the Pope is Head of State that the Australian Royal Commission cannot gain access to the Pope's archives detailing child abuse within the church across the world.

    Also because the Pope was made Head of State by the fascists the Australian Royal Commission cannot even question the Pope about global child abuse in the church.
    Being a head of state can not be conflated with child abuse or preventing other nation states from accessing archives, unless you want to brand the UK government and pretty much any other state which has failed to do any better a job of detecting or dealing with serial abusers than the RCC.

    The fascists did not make the pope a head of state, that's absolutely and utterly laughably mistaken but I'd love to hear what your source is, there have always been Papal states and it has shrunk over time to the Vatican state.

    Mussolini lead a march on Rome of dagger brandishing fascists in order to intimidate the RCC which was his own real rival for power at the time, he made it very clear in his speeches that he'd marched there in support of the institution, or at least not in opposition, but if he wanted to he could have, he thought, marched over it.

    Roman Catholics, whatever their politics, had formed the back bone of both the opposition to fascism in Germany and Italy, in Germany they formed the Iron Column, forgotten about as Europe largely forgot about the German resistance to Nazism before, during and after the war. The Christian Democratic Party was largely a product of German Catholics who'd survived the war and fascism and opposed capitalism and communism, the European Union and European idea were largely products of politicised Catholic intellectuals.

  10. #50
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    Winston, Margaret and Elizabeth

    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    Margaret Thatcher's funeral: 23 things you could pay for with £10m
    Margaret Thatcher's funeral will cost around £10m, although we won't know the exact figure - and how much of it is being spent by the state
    Margaret was given a send off by Elizabeth II only comparable to the send off of Winston - and for the same reason - both fought fascism and won.

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