User Tag List

First 5678 Last

Results 61 to 70 of 73

  1. #61
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    Hype
    Posts
    2,078

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Richard Clarke repeatedly tried to warn Bush and Condi Rice that Bin Laden was trying to launch attacks in the U.S. Bush very much deserves blame for letting 9/11 happen.
    They've known for many years that they have been planning many different avenues of attack, but it's not like they had specifics they needed to stop a single attack- names, dates, places, etc.

    The problem is what do you do with that kind of intelligence, being so broad and ambiguous? Would you have grounded every last commercial airplane for a year if you found out they were planning to hijack planes? 3 years? indefinitely? This is why terrorism is so effective: it creates a panic that can cause more damage than an attack itself.

    The best strategy is to go about your business unless you have HARD intel about the specifics of an attack, otherwise we end up shooting ourselves in the foot til we bleed to death

  2. #62
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    TIGR
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Socionics
    EII None
    Posts
    5,936

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    "Not preventing 9/11" isn't something that can fairly placed on Dubya's shoulders (or Clinton's). Besides the fact that those who were truly responsible were the hijackers themselves, poor intelligence is not just the fault of one POTUS, or even one administration. Terrible response TO 9/11 can be blamed on the Bush Administration, though.
    Correct me if I'm misinformed, but wasn't 911 planned after the first bombing of the WTC was unsuccessful? And didn't al-Qaeda attack us because we got involved with the Soviet-Afghan war, supplied the Afghans with weapons (yes we gave them the weapons they were attacking our soldiers with), taught them to fight and then pissed off and left them in ruins when it was all over? If we're going to place blame, shouldn't we blame President Carter for getting us involved in the Soviet-Afghan War?

    As for Clinton, he almost had Bin Laden but he didn't have enough public support behind him to send enough military troops to Afghanistan. It took 911 for the public to take this seriously enough to support a war.

    I'm not trying to derail this thread and I don't want to get into a heated debate, but I also don't like misinformation. Our current President is a disaster and my sympathies go out to our next President as they will be taking on a tremendous responsibility. The rest of the world think poorly of the US and if we're ever going to get our credibility back we need an strong, intelligent, diplomatic leader or we're fucked.

    Edit: Zergling feel free to move this to it's own thread as I wouldn't mind peacefully discussing more on the United States involvement with the Middle East.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  3. #63
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    Hype
    Posts
    2,078

    Default

    wasn't 911 planned after the first bombing of the WTC wasn't successful?
    Again, what would you do with that kind of vague intel absent of any specifics? Just knowing they might try again doesn't give you a lot of information

    and yeah not trying to derail, but some are being unfair to Clinton AND Bush about this preventing 9/11 thing. Hindsight et al, n stuff.

  4. #64
    / booyalab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    1,511

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Abhaya View Post
    This country's politics are whack. The two party system is just a controlled paradigm. Basically what color do we want to paint the globalists' war machine red or blue? We need radical change, not the BS sold to us by puppets.
    So you're an obama man, then.
    I don't wanna!

  5. #65
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,377

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    They've known for many years that they have been planning many different avenues of attack, but it's not like they had specifics they needed to stop a single attack- names, dates, places, etc.

    The problem is what do you do with that kind of intelligence, being so broad and ambiguous? Would you have grounded every last commercial airplane for a year if you found out they were planning to hijack planes? 3 years? indefinitely? This is why terrorism is so effective: it creates a panic that can cause more damage than an attack itself.

    The best strategy is to go about your business unless you have HARD intel about the specifics of an attack, otherwise we end up shooting ourselves in the foot til we bleed to death
    Actually the best strategy would have been to get better intel to see if Clarke's reports could be acted on. My biggest beef on 9/11 is not that the attacks weren't stopped (because who really knows if they could have), but that they completely ignored all warnings. Bush didn't even give it a second thought. He didn't even try to find out more. In hindsight we know that a lot of the pilots were suspicious enough in their flight training classes that they might have actually been caught if someone had actually looked for them. Many of them were using the same mailing address as people who were known to be terrorists at the time.

    I can understand why it may seem like I'm being hard on Bush on this point, because since 9/11 he's may quite a few screw ups which are even worse. We've had such a bad president for the past eight years that we've really lowered our standards about what makes a good president. I still think that preventing an attack that will kill thousands of civilians is simply part of the job. Even if the details of the attack can't be discovered until it's too late, the president should make sure that intelligence is focused on finding those details. The worst part is that they didn't even try.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  6. #66
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Actually the best strategy would have been to get better intel to see if Clarke's reports could be acted on. My biggest beef on 9/11 is not that the attacks weren't stopped (because who really knows if they could have), but that they completely ignored all warnings. Bush didn't even give it a second thought. He didn't even try to find out more. In hindsight we know that a lot of the pilots were suspicious enough in their flight training classes that they might have actually been caught if someone had actually looked for them. Many of them were using the same mailing address as people who were known to be terrorists at the time.

    I can understand why it may seem like I'm being hard on Bush on this point, because since 9/11 he's may quite a few screw ups which are even worse. We've had such a bad president for the past eight years that we've really lowered our standards about what makes a good president. I still think that preventing an attack that will kill thousands of civilians is simply part of the job. Even if the details of the attack can't be discovered until it's too late, the president should make sure that intelligence is focused on finding those details. The worst part is that they didn't even try.
    This is better point, IMHO. For Republicans being self-styled Johnny Foreignpolicies, they were completely tone-deaf here. Foreign policy rhetoric for most politicians is just that; remember when Dubya was elected on "humble foreign policy?"
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #67
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    ISTx
    Posts
    10,552

    Default

    The next four years may be one hell of a ride. Damn...

  8. #68
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    xkcd
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INT_
    Posts
    10,733

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    I dunno, I don't think they will announce her as VP on Friday.
    I win!

    If Obama is smart he won't ever announce her as his VP.

  9. #69
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    xkcd
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INT_
    Posts
    10,733

    Default

    9-11 posts moved here.

  10. #70

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    So you're an obama man, then.
    Hardly... I stay clear of any Council on Foreign Relations members.
    Happy colored marbles that are rolling in my head..." - Ween

Similar Threads

  1. Hillary will NOT be indicted over private email server
    By Jonny in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 52
    Last Post: 07-15-2016, 05:17 PM
  2. Paul Ryan to be Mitt Romney's Running Mate
    By lowtech redneck in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 134
    Last Post: 08-18-2012, 02:17 AM
  3. Will be ambiguous for food
    By Sling in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 01-31-2009, 01:18 PM
  4. There Will Be Milkshakes
    By Mr Galt in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 02-13-2008, 08:18 AM
  5. Replies: 37
    Last Post: 08-05-2007, 04:24 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO