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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Bush is one of the most unpopular presidents ever, it's true; but worst? Only time will tell.
    Technically, after the WoNA, this would probably be Lincoln, too...
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    Disclaimer: The above is my opinion and mine alone, it does not mean I cannot change my mind, nor does it guarantee that my comments are related to any deep-seated convictions. Take everything I say with a whole snowplow worth of salt and call me in the morning, if you can.

  2. #32
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe View Post
    Both Clinton and Obama are meeting to make a speech in Unity, New Hampshire this Friday. The town of unity was evenly split in the primary: 170 votes for Clinton, 170 for Obama. I am 95% sure that They will announce thier joint candidacy at this point.
    I'd be surprised.

    Because it's obviously such a lousy idea, at least in terms of actually running the country. (Unless things change drastically in terms of personality dynamics with them.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oso Mocoso View Post
    He *did* announce that Bill Clinton will have a very large role in the election. I wouldn't rule out him picking Bill as VP. That would be an interesting move.
    It would also almost certainly be illegal, two term limits and all.

    Oh, God. Not the latency theory... :iroll:
    So, Bush Jr. only does bad because of Clinton, and Clinton does well because of Reagan and Bush Sr., and I presume that anything bad that happened in the early days of Reagan was because of Carter? Observe how the transition has nothing to do with time period, but has everything to do with which party is in power.
    That's exactly how Wolf's mind works. If something can be blamed with the slightest plausibility on some group he doesn't like, and/or credited to a group he does like, it will be so, whether the blame or credit really makes sense to be deserved or not.

  4. #34
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I say we're too in-the-moment to judge. You've got to give a president ten years after he's out of office to form a solid personal opinion, 25 years for the pundits to settle in, a half-century for him to really find his place in history. Bush is one of the most unpopular presidents ever, it's true; but worst? Only time will tell.
    This is almost worth a bet.

    You're speaking conventional wisdom (which is generally true), but you're not taking into account the fact we're talking about Dubya.

    I think also the fact that information is so handy nowadays speeds up the time by which you can properly evaluate someone. No, we don't know all the long-term effects yet, but... how can you say this with a straight face?

    (It's like watching yourself being swept towards a towering waterfall while tied to a log and saying, "well, I don't know QUITE yet whether I'm going over or not, you just don't know until it happens.")

    I'm not sure Dubya has done anything good that could be IN his favor later on. And his invasion of Iraq -- the only real issue he involved himself in, it's become his political "face" -- we find increasingly was done improperly and on pretenses or at least sloppily. All indications at this point are that he weakened the power and reputation of the United States abroad, and we're not going to get it back unless some new remarkable "event" occurs to break the slide.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #35
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    Greenspan jumped ship when his legacy was catching up with him, too.
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    Disclaimer: The above is my opinion and mine alone, it does not mean I cannot change my mind, nor does it guarantee that my comments are related to any deep-seated convictions. Take everything I say with a whole snowplow worth of salt and call me in the morning, if you can.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zergling View Post
    It would also almost certainly be illegal, two term limits and all.
    How would it be illegal to be VP? There are no term limits on VPs, and he would be allowed to finish out one term as President if Obama were unable to for whatever reason. He just wouldn't be allowed to be elected President ever again.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think also the fact that information is so handy nowadays speeds up the time by which you can properly evaluate someone. No, we don't know all the long-term effects yet, but... how can you say this with a straight face?
    Because we don't know the long-term effects yet. Any strong evaluation is purely emotional at this point.
    I 100%, N 88%, T 88%, J 75%

    Disclaimer: The above is my opinion and mine alone, it does not mean I cannot change my mind, nor does it guarantee that my comments are related to any deep-seated convictions. Take everything I say with a whole snowplow worth of salt and call me in the morning, if you can.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    This is almost worth a bet.

    You're speaking conventional wisdom (which is generally true), but you're not taking into account the fact we're talking about Dubya.

    I think also the fact that information is so handy nowadays speeds up the time by which you can properly evaluate someone. No, we don't know all the long-term effects yet, but... how can you say this with a straight face?

    (It's like watching yourself being swept towards a towering waterfall while tied to a log and saying, "well, I don't know QUITE yet whether I'm going over or not, you just don't know until it happens.")

    I'm not sure Dubya has done anything good that could be IN his favor later on. And his invasion of Iraq -- the only real issue he involved himself in, it's become his political "face" -- we find increasingly was done improperly and on pretenses or at least sloppily. All indications at this point are that he weakened the power and reputation of the United States abroad, and we're not going to get it back unless some new remarkable "event" occurs to break the slide.
    If history is fair, they will mention his sensible stances on immigration, cutting taxes, and relatively good (but spotty) support for free trade. Almost everything else, he will get slammed on, and rightfully so. Of course, 50 years from now, Iraq might be a much better place, and historians (who are naturally biased in favor of strong executives who "do something") might retroactively attribute that to Bush. That happens with some regularity. Lincoln, Wilson, and FDR (other power-grabbing war-time Presidents) were considered deities in mainstream American historians' minds until the last twenty years or so.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  9. #39
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I totally agree with your assessment of Lincoln. It's a shame he's on Mount Rushmore. We should blow up his face and have Polk put in his place. Alexander Hamilton would be a better choice, too, even though he was never a president.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I totally agree with your assessment of Lincoln. It's a shame he's on Mount Rushmore. We should blow up his face and have Polk put in his place. Alexander Hamilton would be a better choice, too, even though he was never a president.
    Grover Cleveland!
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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