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  1. #11
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Penn's personal politics don't change the facts presented in the piece. I was pretty horrified when I watched it and thought surely they had presented a slanted perspective so I did some digging and found every fact they presented to be completely verifiable, but this is still the most compact and entertaining source of the info I've been able to find. And they allow PETA folks to speak for themselves. PETA supports radical animal rights activists who firebomb university research facilities, while at the same time the VP herself takes insulin that was developed via animal research and contains animal products.

    PETA's a joke. Seriously. If you haven't seen Ingrid Newkirk's will (not discussed in the Bullshit episode) look it up.

  2. #12
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    They don't advertise the fact that they euthanize most of the animals they "rescue," either.

    http://news.yahoo.com/peta-dogfight-...214525873.html

    http://www.examiner.com/article/peta...y-killing-them

  3. #13
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Penn's personal politics don't change the facts presented in the piece.
    They change a lot when your ideology motivates you to cherry pick and build arguments from worst case scenarios (rather than trends). You could argue against environmentalism too, if you focused on environmentalist terrorists or idiotic hippies. Those are "facts", but they don't present anything about the underlying problem.

    His libertarianism has shaped some of his previous arguments, so I've written him off as a piece of shit to be ignored indefinitely. The worst example I've seen is arguing against "second hand smoke" on his show, and using nothing but an "expert".. who turned out to work for the Cato institute (a libertarian think tank). He might do some good arguing against superstitions and the like, but a lot of people can do that.

  4. #14
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Okay, you don't like the messenger, that's fine. But whether you look at trends or specifics, IMO PETA is counterproductive. PETA trends include opposing no-kill shelters, euthanizing upwards of 90% of the animals they take in, and shock-value ad campaigns that turn moderate people off to animal rights in general.

  5. #15
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Okay, you don't like the messenger, that's fine. But whether you look at trends or specifics, IMO PETA is counterproductive. PETA trends include opposing no-kill shelters, euthanizing upwards of 90% of the animals they take in, and shock-value ad campaigns that turn moderate people off to animal rights in general.
    The euthanizing is for the most at risk animals or as a service to people who don't want to pay for that elsewhere. The percentage rate isn't reflective of every animal they encounter and that needs a home - they refer those to different shelters, and it's not counted as under PETA's care.

    That all said, there still needs to be some high profile animal rights organization. I don't care if it's PETA or not. If there's some systemic flaw in how they address the issue, they should be replaced. Right now, all I see is bad marketing (the only good marketing they have are their celebrity spokespeople, but that barely matters). They run their campaigns like kids protesting on a college campus.. It's got that same immature bent to it. I think many of them have gone straight from college to PETA. There's little (adult) seriousness or professionalism, which they need.

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