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Thread: Invade Syria.

  1. #11
    redundant descriptor netzealot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Many of the arguments are in fact that it's not the right thing to do. America's become a sort of "meddling grandma", wanting you to eat her Apple Pie, squeezing your cheeks... insisting that "you'll love it", and not leaving until she gets her way. "The right thing" to do sometimes is tell grandma to STFU. Maybe grandma should be more like grandpa, hang out in the garage alone, and tinker with his own bullshit.
    That is a good analogy in the sense we have plenty of of our own problems. However, we generally don't deploy troops just to institute a state of democracy like apple pie. We dissolve oppressive, murderous "governments" and by the time we're done with that, it would be irresponsible and a waste of the effort to leave the country in shambles. Take our current deployments... many of the people we are leaving in charge there don't think we should leave so soon and feel we are leaving them unprepared even after this many years. Unfortunately, cutting teeth with a new government is difficult but necessary (America would know) and the pain which comes after the bonds of co-dependence are severed is healthy.

    It's easy to jump on the evil government motivations bandwagon, but for the most part I have found the intended military action usually aligns to a reasonable degree with the stated purpose of the action. Many would balk at this but I challenge them to provide adequate and reasonable proof otherwise... not just popular, emotion-driven conjecture. Fact is these people only imagine that there is a group of puppet masters somewhere with something to gain by their stated motive... they have no idea how the US government works and yet consider people like me who do to be "ignorant" cool-aid drinkers. People gotta answer for what happens in the government even if not to you or I. It's just downright intellectual laziness to pretend that there is not a functional and relatively self-regulating system in place even if the outcome isn't always impressive.

  2. #12
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Didn't read the news yet, but I think these type of decisions are meant to be taken by the UN, not unilaterally by the US.

    It's about time to stop playing the vigilante role.
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    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


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  3. #13
    redundant descriptor netzealot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Didn't read the news yet, but I think these type of decisions are meant to be taken by the UN, not unilaterally by the US.

    It's about time to stop playing the vigilante role.
    Actually, that is why it is in the news today. Although I think we should have gotten involved already, because the US would not make a unilateral decision (I don't think Obama wants to be known as initiating any sort of invasion despite having to continue the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan) without UN backing... the use of chemical weapons is against UN sanctions and gives the US a reasonable cause in the UN in order to take action.

  4. #14
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LevelZeroHero View Post
    Why haven't we already? Now that there's reasonable cause to know they've used chemical weapons, there is adequate leverage to justify action to the other members of the UN.

    How can we be, on one hand, saying that we should not be involved in matters such as this, and on the other hand so gung-ho with the recent anti-bullying sentiment? Some people don't like war. I get that. But your inability to separate your feelings from making the right choices is why you do not belong in the military, not why the military should not be involved.

    Some say, it's too costly. It is expensive, true, but if we really are a country that sees everyone as equal, then should not the preservation of human life trump some of our marginally effective government programs? We can't throw out the need to take action because the way action has been taken in the past needed improvement.

    And then, some say they don't even want us there. True, some do not. Then again, it is more that those people are just the same as the people in the US who do not believe in military action is necessary against militant oppression. Some actually believe they were better off under the oppression of international dictators. Stockholm syndrome much? This is, again, falsely confusing the method taken in the past (which anyone can agree needs improvement) with the need for some action in the first place.

    Funnily enough, those die-hard, crusty and senile 'nam veterans are right when they say liberals are castrating the country, because thanks to the criticisms of military effort in the past decade we're now afraid to engage in more military action despite it's obvious justification.

    Why take the path of cowardice? Mistakes happen. War is not neat and tidy like your matching set of Ikea furniture. That doesn't mean we should stand by and let bullying happen on an international scale.

    Bullying takes place by others on occasion.
    Syrian girls and boys are not yet raped by our people.
    It is a shame. Indeed, why wait? Get on with it.
    Come back, days of glory.

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  5. #15
    redundant descriptor netzealot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Bullying takes place by others on occasion.
    Syrian girls and boys are not yet raped by our people.
    It is a shame. Indeed, why wait? Get on with it.
    Come back, days of glory.

    Japan
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    Right, rare and isolated cases of war crime is worse than mass murder by an entire government. I forgot.

  6. #16
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    Because these are exactly the kind of folks I would like to support militarily...



    Islamic law comes to rebel-held Syria

    ALEPPO, Syria — The evidence was incontrovertible, captured on video and posted on YouTube for all the world to see. During a demonstration against the Syrian regime, Wael Ibrahim, a veteran activist, had tossed aside a banner inscribed with the Muslim declaration of faith.

    And that, decreed the officers of the newly established Sharia Authority set up to administer rebel-held Aleppo, constitutes a crime under Islamic law, punishable in this instance by 10 strokes of a metal pipe.

    The beating administered last month offered a vivid illustration of the extent to which the Syrian revolution has strayed from its roots as a largely spontaneous uprising against four decades of Assad family rule. After mutating last year into a full-scale war, it is moving toward what appears to be an organized effort to institute Islamic law in areas that have fallen under rebel control.

    Building on the reputation they have earned in recent months as the rebellion’s most accomplished fighters, Islamist units are seeking to assert their authority over civilian life, imposing Islamic codes and punishments and administering day-to-day matters such as divorce, marriage and vehicle licensing.

    Numerous Islamist groups are involved, representing a wide spectrum of views. But, increasingly, the dominant role is falling to Jabhat al-Nusra, also known as the al-Nusra Front. The group has been designated a terrorist organization by the United States for suspected ties to al-Qaeda but is widely respected by many ordinary Syrians for its battlefield prowess and the assistance it has provided to needy civilians.

  7. #17
    redundant descriptor netzealot's Avatar
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    Maybe it's my lack of Arabic, but I don't see how someone could make the connection between that video and "incontrovertible evidence" that the rebels are instituting their own evil regime. Well, I guess if you're the Washington Post.

    If that was the case, even more proof that they need help forming a healthy government.

  8. #18
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LevelZeroHero View Post
    Maybe it's my lack of Arabic, but I don't see how someone could make the connection between that video and "incontrovertible evidence" that the rebels are instituting their own evil regime. Well, I guess if you're the Washington Post.

    If that was the case, even more proof that they need help forming a healthy government.
    I'm going to take the Picard route and declare Prime Directive. Healthy governments will form when people and conditions are ready for it. The best you can do is plant a seed (Picard would dispute even doing that, but I guess more Cap. Kirk ). The United States didn't develop this way themselves. Why should anyone else? They had some help from the French, but our revolution incubated on it's own, our founding fathers educated themselves, and decided to fight for themselves. Anything short of that is meddling, and will even be perceived as imperialism or colonialism.

  9. #19
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    my vote goes for invading US instead
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  10. #20
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    Sure. It worked so well in Iraq, so why not.

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