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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    So you disagree because we don't know of the NSA's spying leading to any deaths (yet)? Death totals is how you want to measure harm?
    I measure harm in plenty of ways. We'll see how important people think it is in 2016.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I measure harm in plenty of ways. We'll see how important people think it is in 2016.
    You are not "people".

    What sad is, you care more about the political implications than how these issues actually affect people. That's pretty sick. You might deny this, but we both know it's true.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You are not "people".

    What sad is, you care more about the political implications than how these issues actually affect people. That's pretty sick. You might deny this, but we both know it's true.
    I operate in the real world, and sleep just fine at night. Sorry to disappoint.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I operate in the real world, and sleep just fine at night. Sorry to disappoint.
    Right, the "real world", where policy decisions only matter for their political implications.

    I guess you get used to sleeping alone, eh?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #45
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    To my knowledge no one has died because the NSA has a boner for snooping on cell phones.

    Ambassador Stevens is currently six feet under ground.
    That is a big loss for the Stevens famity, but a fart in the wind for the US and the world.

  6. #46
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The whole NSA spying-on-Americans coverup is a trillion times more important than this bullshit. But people like you, who should know better, allow this nonsense to continue to get more attention than it deserves. We still don't know the whole truth about what the NSA has been doing, but BENGHAZI!!!!!!! [removed]
    Hey, we're the country that obsessed over and impeached Bill Clinton for having an affair and then not admitting to it directly, and then had our government shut down last fall for two weeks via political extortion. Don't sound so shocked. It's just business as usual here. Whatever can be leveraged for possible gain will be, regardless of perspective.

    Why do you think the birther movement against Obama lasted so long?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #47
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer
    Hey, we're the country that obsessed over and impeached Bill Clinton for having an affair and then not admitting to it directly, and then had our government shut down last fall for two weeks via political extortion.
    I agree. He shouldn't have been impeached over perjury over the affair. He should've been impeached for sexually harrassing scores of women.

    The IRS also audited Paula Jones (told to kiss Clinton's member), Kathleen Willey (grope victim), and Juanita Broaddrick (an alleged Clinton rape victim). Bill O'Reilly was audited 3 years in a row. I think this abuse of power is also impeachment-worthy.

    Why do you think the birther movement against Obama lasted so long?
    The birther movement was started by Hillary Clinton's campaign and it lasted so long because Obama thought he could gain sympathy from it. That's why he refused to release the long form BC for so long. It's the same reason why Benghazi has lasted this long. This president is the least transparent president ever.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  8. #48
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    I'm sorry, but I just don't see why such a big deal is being made of this... I don't even know what the main point is anymore. (And before those who feel strongly about how important this whole thing is jump down my throat, I felt the same way, and articulated the same bewilderment, about many of the Bush-era "scandals"). I'll admit, I'm not the most informed person on this issue (I haven't paid attention to it in the last year), but from what I've recently read there doesn't seem to be anything to merit this sort of reaction.

    So... the original issue I recall being discussed was whether Obama used "terrorism" in his explanation, and more broadly whether he intentionally "misled the American people about the nature of the attacks." Now, the issue is whether the administration purposefully obfuscated the issue prior to the election in an effort to ride it out to a victory in the election that year. My intuition says yes, probably, although not with the amount of foresight some are ascribing. This sort of behavior is a natural result of the type of electorate we have, which is a fickle, sensationalist populace that is fed the news equivalent of that foamy milk-froth that sometimes occurs when making blended drinks (interesting and sometimes tasty, but with only hints of the flavors that are in the body of the drink).

    Rather than write more, I'd prefer to hear a few of you articulate why you feel this story should be given the attention it's getting. I welcome specifics about why you feel this issue is so important, what the ramifications are of not giving it so much weight, and how the administration's response was more a result of the administration's corruption than normal human error and standard behavior in our political environment. I'd also like to add that we're talking about hundreds of people exchanging information with each other and working both independently and as a single entity; these things are terribly complex, and I struggle to believe in carefully crafted conspiracies of any kind (so maybe I'm biased by my own ignorance... /shrug)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Hey, we're the country that obsessed over and impeached Bill Clinton for having an affair and then not admitting to it directly, and then had our government shut down last fall for two weeks via political extortion. Don't sound so shocked. It's just business as usual here. Whatever can be leveraged for possible gain will be, regardless of perspective.

    Why do you think the birther movement against Obama lasted so long?
    Yep they'll seize on anything, kind of like a traffic jam in New Jersey.

  10. #50
    Problem? Grand Admiral Crunch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny View Post
    I'm sorry, but I just don't see why such a big deal is being made of this... I don't even know what the main point is anymore. (And before those who feel strongly about how important this whole thing is jump down my throat, I felt the same way, and articulated the same bewilderment, about many of the Bush-era "scandals"). I'll admit, I'm not the most informed person on this issue (I haven't paid attention to it in the last year), but from what I've recently read there doesn't seem to be anything to merit this sort of reaction.

    So... the original issue I recall being discussed was whether Obama used "terrorism" in his explanation, and more broadly whether he intentionally "misled the American people about the nature of the attacks." Now, the issue is whether the administration purposefully obfuscated the issue prior to the election in an effort to ride it out to a victory in the election that year. My intuition says yes, probably, although not with the amount of foresight some are ascribing. This sort of behavior is a natural result of the type of electorate we have, which is a fickle, sensationalist populace that is fed the news equivalent of that foamy milk-froth that sometimes occurs when making blended drinks (interesting and sometimes tasty, but with only hints of the flavors that are in the body of the drink).

    Rather than write more, I'd prefer to hear a few of you articulate why you feel this story should be given the attention it's getting. I welcome specifics about why you feel this issue is so important, what the ramifications are of not giving it so much weight, and how the administration's response was more a result of the administration's corruption than normal human error and standard behavior in our political environment. I'd also like to add that we're talking about hundreds of people exchanging information with each other and working both independently and as a single entity; these things are terribly complex, and I struggle to believe in carefully crafted conspiracies of any kind (so maybe I'm biased by my own ignorance... /shrug)
    What we're seeing is these journalists doing a victory dance about being proven right after being called crazy and conspiracy theorists. That's the story and the origin for their excitement that I don't connect to.

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