User Tag List

First 4567 Last

Results 51 to 60 of 68

  1. #51
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Pointy ends and impracticality?
    Impracticality, meaninglessness and pointlessness.

    "Pointy ends" - they bring to mind deconstructing and reconstructing conceptual building blocks.

  2. #52
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    MBTI
    estj
    Enneagram
    378 sx/so
    Socionics
    esfp
    Posts
    3,038

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Can you clarify this? Because, I think this the second time in a short while that I have found that I am in almost complete agreement with most of your assertions, but still somehow in disagreement with the spirit of what you are saying.
    First of all haha, I just want to say yeah I know we agree quite a bit haha I hope I did not come across as hostile or whatever just trying to clarify what it means for myself in my own mind partially. I guess what I am getting at is that knowledge is not just something you can come at by pondering it -HAS- to be learned through multiple channels in order to be complete. As human beings we -cannot- (or not in a fashion that is observable to our senses) experience quantum mechanics in a tangible and physical way. I believe this needs to change in order for people to "get it" and in order for society to evolve in a way that takes into consideration the knowledge we have discovered through science so that for instance it becomes institutionalized into law. What I mean by this is that the justice system for example currently does not take into account a person's neurology in sentencing and that makes a difference because different kinds of punishment might be more effective or not depending on a person's development and so forth. We are punishing some people who are -physically incapable- of having the punishment affect their behavior, but perhaps they might respond better to more targeted positive stimuli. Simultaneously, we give egregious punishment to some when it may not be necessary because they would respond to a more nominal pressure. Additionally, I think it could change things like the economy by realizing that what motivates people is not money, cars, or sex per se but dopamine rewards in certain channels which tend to be activated by certain rewards for most (obviously we do not have the sophistication to implement this yet). The major point is in order to change how we think about the world and how it behaves and why it behaves the way it does we have to change the way we -interact- with reality on a day to day basis that changes the assumptions we all have about "how things are." The reason I think this is true is because neurons change and develop with behavior not with thought and when people take new actions they invent new thoughts to begin to justify those actions as the neurons which control the behavior begin to activate and dominate the kind of interaction the organism has with its environment more. So, I agree with you "They've made their point, it's time to move on." and additionally, now that we know more about how the mind interacts with reality and that soul and body are not part of some metaphysical duality that does not interact then in order to create thought that has internal meaning and is reflective of reality we must CREATE the interactions that tie things together through a change in our interaction which in turn changes the levels of interconnectivity and data transmission throughout the system so that some semblance of an image of what we might call a holistic unified universe might emerge though our observation of the ties between all the "parts." (because when we create highly controlled closed systems to monitor observables we tend to mitigate the effect of the system on the isolated part of it when what is needed is to see it "in play" with it's environment and monitor is passively much like we do with observable phenomena that is too large to contain like approximating that masses of galaxies by redshift and other variables or the cosmic background radiation to get an idea of the energy state of the initial universe etc).
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  3. #53
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    The sad thing is, postmodernism is something only expressed in the "lower/middle" classes. It's another opiate of the masses. We can all talk about moving away from postmodernism, but the "elite" have already moved past it (or never embraced it at all). Bush called his war a "crusade" - hardly a postmodern mentality. The banking crisis has revealed just how "different" their entire culture sees themselves. Lloyd Blankfein (chairman of Goldman Sachs) think he's doing "God's work". What's God's work? Well, they have no qualms betting with your money, and no qualms heaving taxes on you when they fail. You pay for their failure - they have a special, vital role and viewpoint that deserves to live extravagantly at 90 percent of the world's expense. "Modern"/enlightenment era "peasants" wouldn't settle for any of this (they got screwed plenty too, but they'd at least put up a fight).

  4. #54
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Haven't I been saying this the entire time I've been here?

    Postmodernism is just the green meme.

    Modernism is the orange meme.


  5. #55
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    No, the "Orange meme" is another stream of postmodernism as well. Postmodernism champions the "Will" above all things. One subset of postmodernism is the "green meme" and lovey dovey and respects "all will", but the common stream between both is championing the Will. Objective truth (the goal of modernism) or progress through rational debate (rather than will and power) doesn't exist in this scheme.

  6. #56
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    No, the "Orange meme" is another stream of postmodernism as well.
    Actually, you're wrong.

  7. #57
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default

    ^

  8. #58
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Actually, you're wrong.
    Not even close to wrong.

    Postmodernism begins more or less with existentialism, and your patron saint of existentialism is Nietzsche. Nietzsche had no use for modernism's quest for truth. "All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth." And the method of prevailing in Nietzsche's mind is the Will (Will to Power.. nothing else. Power is it's own proof that something is valid.).

  9. #59
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Not even close to wrong.
    Yes, you are.

    Postmodernism is all about relativity, which is the green meme.

    Modernism is all about advancement, science, technology, progress. It thought (thinks, really -- just look at Victor, and his odd mixture of orange and green [hell, maybe even yellow and turquoise {but he sure loves trumpeting Enlightenment (i.e., orange) virtues}] memes) it was about being objective, but, in the end, that "objectivity" really just revealed itself (at least in the eyes of postmodernist thinkers [Nietzsche, Heidegger, Kuhn, et al]) to be how orange is described here: the continual marshaling of greater and greater technological control over the world (read: Heidegger's "standing reserve" in 'The Question Concerning Technology').

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Postmodernism begins more or less with the existentialism, and your patron saint of existentialism is Nietzsche. Nietzsche had no use for modernism's quest for truth. "All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth." And the method of prevailing in Nietzsche's mind is the Will (Will to Power.. nothing else. Power is it's own proof that something is valid.).
    Nietzsche does many things, but what you're referring to at the end here is (largely) his trumpeting the red meme over the blue meme.

    He is, tho, also bringing on the green meme by trashing the orange meme.

    The funny thing is, Nietzsche was actually also very orange meme.

  10. #60
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post

    Modernism is all about advancement, science, technology, progress. It thought (thinks, really -- just look at Victor, and his odd mixture of orange and green [hell, maybe even yellow and turquoise {but he sure loves trumpeting Enlightenment (i.e., orange) virtues}] memes) it was about being objective, but, in the end, that "objectivity" really just revealed itself (at least in the eyes of postmodernist thinkers [Nietzsche, Heidegger, Kuhn, et al]) to be how orange is described here: the continual marshaling of greater and greater technological control over the world (read: Heidegger's "standing reserve" in 'The Question Concerning Technology').
    .
    There's a distinction with modernism's sense of progress. It's collective progress. It's characterized by romanticism on the part of many people. It's a mass belief in an idealogy, and working toward something together (whether it was Democracy, Communism, etc). Kant is a modernist philosopher - a promoter of objective truth, morality, and duty. Postmodernism doesn't believe in shit. Nothing. Except the self. That makes the majority of them pussies, but it leaves a room for a superman too.. When people believe in nothing but the self, they admire the one who represents the "Super Self". The Ubermensch. This is what Nietzsche promoted. His only sense of "objective morality" is master and slave morality. He's distinct from typical postmodernists, but he's also the ultimate end of it.

Similar Threads

  1. The end of innovation?
    By ygolo in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 04-15-2011, 04:39 AM
  2. The end of freedom of speech?
    By Sahara in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 12-29-2009, 03:45 PM
  3. Forget Big Brother: Facebook, Corporations, and the End of Free Speech
    By speculative in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 11-23-2009, 11:40 AM
  4. why is taking semester off the end of the world?
    By prplchknz in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 11-06-2009, 01:53 PM
  5. Man on the Moon: The End of Day (New Kid Cudi Album)
    By metaphours in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-02-2009, 01:59 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO