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  1. #41
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Well dude I know you cant understand why people cant all ask their parents for money like you do but everyone is a stay at home libertarian
    I am at home.

    My father died 1991. My mother got Alzheimer's 20 years ago. My parents did not give a cent for my education. I do not ask them money.

    You said America is not a good place to be old. I agree.
    Lateralus posted a reply to your statement. It went something like this:

    "Our government incentivizes people to spend, rather than save, so most Americans don't have enough saved for a comfortable retirement."

    Cafe wrote you a sympathetic post.
    Your answer (you refer to the post of Lateralus):

    "That's a better post than any complaining about feckless individuals simply failing to save or causing problems for themselves and everyone else by being thriftless."

    I was short:

    An extract from a complainer's manual:
    "It is not the place of the government to give money to the poor. You do it."
    If you do it, you are not being thriftless?

    What I said means:

    The libertarian simultaneously wants you to save your money and give it to the poor.
    I was on your side. Do not write rot about me and my family.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    I am at home.

    My father died 1991. My mother got Alzheimer's 20 years ago. My parents did not give a cent for my education. I do not ask them money.

    You said America is not a good place to be old. I agree.
    Lateralus posted a reply to your statement. It went something like this:

    "Our government incentivizes people to spend, rather than save, so most Americans don't have enough saved for a comfortable retirement."

    Cafe wrote you a sympathetic post.
    Your answer (you refer to the post of Lateralus):

    "That's a better post than any complaining about feckless individuals simply failing to save or causing problems for themselves and everyone else by being thriftless."

    I was short:

    An extract from a complainer's manual:
    "It is not the place of the government to give money to the poor. You do it."
    If you do it, you are not being thriftless?

    What I said means:

    The libertarian simultaneously wants you to save your money and give it to the poor.
    I was on your side. Do not write rot about me and my family.
    I didnt see lateralus's post, that was a general reply to cafe anticipating some if the capitalists responses, I thought your post was one of those and it made me think of a particular age group responding in a particular way.

  3. #43
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Average lifespan is 78 years for people dying today, not people dying 20 or 30 years from now. Our policies need to be designed to work long term, not for just today.
    Lifespan extension doesn't follow a linear curve but a logarithmic one, there was little difference between average lifespan in the early 90s and average lifespan now (and 20 years have passed). Most demographic projections agree with me.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  4. #44
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Lifespan extension doesn't follow a linear curve but a logarithmic one, there was little difference between average lifespan in the early 90s and average lifespan now (and 20 years have passed). Most demographic projections agree with me.

    Yup. Additionally, most measurements are taken from life expectancy at birth. http://www.ssa.gov/history/lifeexpect.html shows just how life expectancy has grown in terms of retirement.

    (Although this shows the problem too - more people reaching 65, living longer after 65; the system saw a lot more people paying in and not collecting before.)

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    The stuff you say about public assistance doesn't jibe with what I have experienced and what I see irl.
    How?

    I haven't argued anything except that our entitlement system is unsustainable without reform.

    My arguments don't jive with your personal conviction (forgive me for assuming here) that continuing/growing welfare support is more important to the nation than responding to pressing economic challenges that are exacerbated by the growth in entitlement spending you support.

    The only thing you seem to see is that there are poor people out there, and they by default require the most assistance we can give them regardless of our other concerns.

    Unless you're an economist with knowledge of how to grow entitlement spending without crowding out other national budgetary concerns, I don't see how dealing with the poor on a day to day basis gives you any ground to rebut the claim that we can't support entitlement spending that continues to grow as a percentage of GDP.

    When theory and apparent reality are at odds, I tend to go back and double check theory to see if there is something going on with the data, but I know not everyone approaches things that way.
    I don't appreciate the insinuation.

    I have questions for you.

    Do our entitlement programs require no reform?

    At what point do national economic concerns, which have an effect on 100% of the populace outweigh concerns about subsidizing the lives of those at or below the poverty level?

    I understand the need for a social safety net, I'm just not so tied to it that I would rather see the economy tank than allow reforms that may change benefit levels, or narrow those that can qualify for the programs, or for that matter enforce a work requirement.

  6. #46
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    A combination of reform and closing loopholes would easily do the trick. It's all about numbers, right? Annual cost of Medicare is $524 billion and Social Security is nearing $900 B. Not to mention other spending.

    OTOH, some $3 Trillion each year is lost to the wealthy (somewhat alleviated recently) and corporate tax dodging. How convenient that the magical number the country needs to sustain entitlements is around the same figure that isn't being paid in. And this is only our country alone. There's 20 Trillion being tucked away around the world.

    Unfortunately, the solution is always austerity. Cut the programs, and blame all the woes on lower and middle classes and small businesses. Double bonus if you can brainwash them to cheer it all on themselves. Only Capitalism can make people believe it's a good thing to be eaten alive.

  7. #47
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    By the way, I'm not just against the Kochs and Googles of the world. Half of the time, it's just rich celebrities avoiding taxes. Many of which are hip hop artists. Who couldn't be more different than Koch, superficially. But I don't differentiate them. They're all pricks who promote "livin' large", but it's always at the expense of everyone else. "Americans for Prosperity" or Lil Wayne. Makes no difference.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    A combination of reform and closing loopholes would easily do the trick. It's all about numbers, right? Annual cost of Medicare is $524 billion and Social Security is nearing $900 B. Not to mention other spending.

    OTOH, some $3 Trillion each year is lost to the wealthy (somewhat alleviated recently) and corporate tax dodging. How convenient that the magical number the country needs to sustain entitlements is around the same figure that isn't being paid in. And this is only our country alone. There's 20 Trillion being tucked away around the world.

    Unfortunately, the solution is always austerity. Cut the programs, and blame all the woes on lower and middle classes and small businesses. Double bonus if you can brainwash them to cheer it all on themselves. Only Capitalism can make people believe it's a good thing to be eaten alive.
    I'd like to see the numbers on that 3 trillion.

  9. #49
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    This vid makes it very clear. Income inequity is here to stay, without social revolution.

  10. #50
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I'd like to see the numbers on that 3 trillion.
    I'll link you to an article on Occupy, just to annoy you.

    http://www.occupy.com/article/us-tax...ear-and-rising

    Surprisingly though, even the Economist recognizes the wider (global) figures. Even if they still promote the same free trade schtick towards the end.

    http://www.economist.com/news/leader...man-missing-20

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