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  1. #31
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Yes.

    They have equal opportunity to get a job to pay for tuition, medical expenses and retirement.

    They have more than equal opportunity to apply for financial aid and entitlement programs that are unavailable to the more financially secure.

    Should the taxpayers be obligated to pay tuition for all children who can get into college, but can't qualify for a full academic ride?
    You obviously grew up rich, didn't you?
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  2. #32
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Here's the problem I see, mathematically:

    Let's say someone starts working at the age of 18, works for 50 years, then retires and lives another 25 years.
    This problem isn't actuarially significant since the average life expectancy is around 78 years. You average folk is going to live 10 more years, not 25.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    You obviously grew up rich, didn't you?
    Whats rich?

  4. #34
    Senior Member Chaotic Harmony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Whats rich?
    Probably referring to something like your parents not having to work three jobs to make ends meet.


  5. #35
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Whats rich?
    Alright, I'll ask a more objective question. What was the total income of your parents' household and through how many sources of income was it earned? I'm sure it probably varied over the years so just try to average something out over the first 20 years of your life.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #36
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    This problem isn't actuarially significant since the average life expectancy is around 78 years. You average folk is going to live 10 more years, not 25.
    Average lifespan is 78 years for people dying today, not people dying 20 or 30 years from now. Our policies need to be designed to work long term, not for just today.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #37
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I know they do. They're spending lots of money on it. I wonder how much longer they can afford it. Those nations have birth rates below the replacement rate. They're going to have population decline unless they bring in lots of immigrants. I just wonder how much longer people can receive more in government benefits than they pay in.
    That is a problem a lot of countries are facing. However, that's a completely different argument than not being able to trust the government to do right by its citizens. Apparently, in some countries, the government does okay with quality of life stuff. Whether it is sustainable remains to be seen, but apparently when resources are available, it can be done well.
    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I'm friends with real poor people.

    My best friend and former roommate's folks could barely make ends meat.

    He worked his way through college, and now he's a core 1 financial adviser with Merrill Lynch.

    He's more conservative than I am.
    I don't suppose he is the child of recent immigrants who were well educated and fairly well off in their country of origin?

    Are you friends with any people who are poor now and relying exclusively on public assistance and charity in order to survive?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Sometimes we all have to make due.
    Some of us don't. A lot depends on whether we were wise enough to have chosen the right parents.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Care to expand on this?
    The stuff you say about public assistance doesn't jibe with what I have experienced and what I see irl. When theory and apparent reality are at odds, I tend to go back and double check theory to see if there is something going on with the data, but I know not everyone approaches things that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Everyone has to earn their way to some degree.
    Nah, they really don't. Like I said, a lot depends on what parents you choose.

    We do badly on both economic equality and social mobility. I think that it is fairly likely that poor outcomes in equality indicate that perhaps we don't have very good equality of opportunity.

    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #38
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    That's a better post than any complaining about feckless individuals simply failing to save or causing problems for themselves and everyone else by being thriftless.
    An extract from a complainer's manual:
    "It is not the place of the government to give money to the poor. You do it."
    If you do it, you are not being thriftless?

  9. #39
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    The whole idea of the government not having this "place" is the kind of reasoning that only belongs in a subsistence economy, where the poor can truly defend themselves (or their "tribe" can). Governments however play a role in a market economy from the ground up. They can't pick and choose what roles to play, if it's going to work at all. If you take out the traditional means of livelihood, then you need to replace it with equal (or better) jobs/ownership/quality of life/etc..

  10. #40
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    An extract from a complainer's manual:
    "It is not the place of the government to give money to the poor. You do it."
    If you do it, you are not being thriftless?
    Well dude I know you cant understand why people cant all ask their parents for money like you do but everyone is a stay at home libertarian

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