User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 76

  1. #21
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    INFj None
    Posts
    9,827

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    When taking into consideration the other benefits and gov't aid programs such an individual qualifies for... yes.
    It's really not. Plus, just because you qualify for something on paper doesn't mean you'll get it. There are waiting lists for housing and for Section 8 (assuming you can find a landlord that will take it). There is a budget for heat assistance and once it runs out, it's gone, so not everybody that qualifies for it gets it. Foodstamps can be pretty decent if you have several people, but for one person, it's pretty meager.

    I know you think you know this stuff because you've read stuff, but I am on the ground, so to speak. What you're reading is at odds with reality. Do you volunteer with real poor people where you might find out what's actually going on in their lives? If you truly want to know what things are like for folks, it might give you more data to work with than reading articles.

    The information you're getting is skewed somehow or something. Really, I think if you actually sat down and called assistance offices and looked in the newspaper at rents and looked at food stamp allowances and took a walk through a grocery store in a poor neighborhood with a calculator, you'd get a better picture than your current sources are providing you with.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  2. #22
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    14,031

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I know you think you know this stuff because you've read stuff, but I am on the ground, so to speak. What you're reading is at odds with reality. Do you volunteer with real poor people where you might find out what's actually going on in their lives?
    I'm friends with real poor people.

    My best friend and former roommate's folks could barely make ends meat.

    He worked his way through college, and now he's a core 1 financial adviser with Merrill Lynch.

    He's more conservative than I am.

    Sometimes we all have to make due.

    The information you're getting is skewed somehow or something.
    Care to expand on this?

    Really, I think if you actually sat down and called assistance offices and looked in the newspaper at rents and looked at food stamp allowances and took a walk through a grocery store in a poor neighborhood with a calculator, you'd get a better picture than your current sources are providing you with
    Everyone has to earn their way to some degree.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    $600-700 a month is adequate? Oy!

    I could be mistaken, but it seems to me when you actually know people that are in these circumstances, it makes a little bit of a difference in how you look at these things.

    Wages haven't gone up in about thirty years. A lot of people lost their home equity in the housing crash, which has historically made up a large part of the wealth of the less-than-wealthy. Pensions are virtually unheard of now.

    There are a lot of reasons why people don't have much if anything put back for retirement. Some of it is poor planning, in part influenced by a very consumer driven culture. Part of it is the erosion of the middle class. There are a lot of parts of it, but it's easier to just say they deserve it and go on our merry way.
    I know people in these circumstances, both of my grandmothers. They're getting more assistance from family than they're getting from the government. My mother won't have to worry, either, because she had 8 children. I know most families aren't that large, but I would support government policy that promoted extended families living together or at least in close proximity.

    Finances aside, I don't trust the government to make sure my mother lives comfortably. Bureaucracies are cold.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #24
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    INFj None
    Posts
    9,827

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I know people in these circumstances, both of my grandmothers. They're getting more assistance from family than they're getting from the government. My mother won't have to worry, either, because she had 8 children. I know most families aren't that large, but I would support government policy that promoted extended families living together or at least in close proximity.

    Finances aside, I don't trust the government to make sure my mother lives comfortably. Bureaucracies are cold.
    Well, perhaps, but the countries that are higher rated on almost every quality of life factor including retirement security do have government involved in this kind of thing, as a rule.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  5. #25
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    14,031

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Well, perhaps, but the countries that are higher rated on almost every quality of life factor including retirement security do have government involved in this kind of thing, as a rule.
    Good for them...

  6. #26
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Well, perhaps, but the countries that are higher rated on almost every quality of life factor including retirement security do have government involved in this kind of thing, as a rule.
    I know they do. They're spending lots of money on it. I wonder how much longer they can afford it. Those nations have birth rates below the replacement rate. They're going to have population decline unless they bring in lots of immigrants. I just wonder how much longer people can receive more in government benefits than they pay in.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #27
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Here's the problem I see, mathematically:

    Let's say someone starts working at the age of 18, works for 50 years, then retires and lives another 25 years. In order to live those 25 years at the same standard of living as the previous 50, you would need 33% of your wages saved for retirement. Right now only 6.2% (12.4% if you include the employer's contribution) is paid in Social Security taxes. I know SS doesn't guarantee the same standard of living, but the tax rate is still nearly 3 times too low for there to be a 1-to-1 ratio of taxes paid to benefits received. And that's assuming people work 50 years and live only 25 years after retiring.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #28
    jump sleuthiness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    54 so/sp
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    1,860

    Default

    The problem I see, mathematically, is we have more stuff and options than we can process. People who need healthcare won't have it and plenty will die, plenty of whom have been begging for it like hungry infants, but lo!, human ingenuity. We're pretty much roaches with skin. Have you heard about the young boy who recently cured himself of the HIV virus by eating garbage? Human ingenuity. Win the lottery by shooting heroin directly into your skull. How do I do the @ thing. Weigh in with your thought, Marm.

    thinking of you

  9. #29
    Senior Member Chaotic Harmony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx
    Posts
    1,436

    Default

    Perhaps not all Americans are working longer, but I know plenty that are. I actually can't think of anyone who hit retirement age and immediately retired. We've got people well into their 70s still working here. We've got a little old lady in her 80s still working here... And she's vested into a pretty good retirement and pension plan, so it's not like she couldn't retire and be sitting pretty.


  10. #30
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    "Entitlements" wouldn't be such an issue if more people paid their taxes. There's an estimated $20 trillion of corporate revenue worldwide funneled away from taxes. And that isn't even mentioning the efforts to guard individual wealth. And then these people think they even have a legitimate voice to lobby against "entitlements", when they have removed themselves out of the system to begin with. In all practical senses of the word, they're not even citizens. Furthermore, they set the wages too, which makes us ineffective taxpayers on our own (not to mention, shipping hundreds of thousands of jobs overseas, mostly in slave shops that pay even worse wages). Entitlements (among other things) can't be supported, when it's only the poor investing in the future.

Similar Threads

  1. Could the US accept a world in which is wasnt Hegemon?
    By Survive & Stay Free in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-22-2010, 01:13 PM
  2. US to purchase $250 billion in bank stock
    By Lateralus in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 11-24-2008, 03:09 PM
  3. MBTIc votes in the US election
    By Economica in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 110
    Last Post: 10-31-2008, 08:38 PM
  4. Christianity's Fall from Grace (in the US)
    By mippus in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 04-08-2008, 11:31 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO