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  1. #11
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Conservatives consider the welfare of the country as a whole more important than subsidizing decades of retirement for an elderly population that is living much longer, yet working no longer, than when that particular welfare program was created.
    I care about you as long as I don't have to change my lifestyle.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    I care about you as long as I don't have to change my lifestyle.
    I care about you, but not so much that I'm willing to mortgage our kids future to support several decades of retired living that you were too short sighted to safe for.

  3. #13
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I care about you, but not so much that I'm willing to mortgage our kids future to support several decades of retired living that you were too short sighted to safe for.
    Whose children? Does everyone have equal capacity to save adequately for retirement, their children's college expenses, etc? What about people who end up disabled because of an accident? What about children who grew up under domestic violence, drug abuse, or sexual abuse? Do you think their outcomes tend to be the same? Do they bear responsibility for who they were born to?
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    Whose children?
    Everyone's.

    Does everyone have equal capacity to save adequately for retirement, their children's college expenses, etc?
    No.

    What about people who end up disabled because of an accident?
    They are currently (and adequately) covered under disability benefits.

    What about children who grew up under domestic violence, drug abuse, or sexual abuse?
    What about them?

    Do you think their outcomes tend to be the same?
    What outcomes? The same as who?

    I support equal opportunity, not equality of outcomes.

    Do they bear responsibility for who they were born to?
    No more than any of us do.

  5. #15
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    No.
    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I support equal opportunity, not equality of outcomes.
    Do you believe that people who have unequal ability to pay for college tuition, medical expenses, and retirement have equality of opportunity?
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    Do you believe that people who have unequal ability to pay for college tuition, medical expenses, and retirement have equality of opportunity?
    Yes.

    They have equal opportunity to get a job to pay for tuition, medical expenses and retirement.

    They have more than equal opportunity to apply for financial aid and entitlement programs that are unavailable to the more financially secure.

    Should the taxpayers be obligated to pay tuition for all children who can get into college, but can't qualify for a full academic ride?

  7. #17
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    $600-700 a month is adequate? Oy!

    I could be mistaken, but it seems to me when you actually know people that are in these circumstances, it makes a little bit of a difference in how you look at these things.

    Wages haven't gone up in about thirty years. A lot of people lost their home equity in the housing crash, which has historically made up a large part of the wealth of the less-than-wealthy. Pensions are virtually unheard of now.

    There are a lot of reasons why people don't have much if anything put back for retirement. Some of it is poor planning, in part influenced by a very consumer driven culture. Part of it is the erosion of the middle class. There are a lot of parts of it, but it's easier to just say they deserve it and go on our merry way.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    $600-700 a month is adequate?
    When taking into consideration the other benefits and gov't aid programs such an individual qualifies for... yes.

  9. #19
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Yes.

    They have equal opportunity to get a job to pay for tuition, medical expenses and retirement.

    They have more than equal opportunity to apply for financial aid and entitlement programs that are unavailable to the more financially secure.

    Should the taxpayers be obligated to pay tuition for all children who can get into college, but can't qualify for a full academic ride?
    What are the outcomes in countries where this is done like? What are the outcomes like here where it is not done?
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    What are the outcomes in countries where this is done like? What are the outcomes like here where it is not done?
    Google is only a click away.

    EDIT - you also didn't answer my question... Should the taxpayers be obligated to pay tuition for all children who can get into college, but can't qualify for a full academic ride?

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