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  1. #31
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I think people should at least try, to see what happens. Having enough situations like this, in an otherwise "Western" society with relatively few other taboos, provides good data at least. It's not helpful if it's a culture that bans porn, but also has Sharia law or some other pervasive form of traditionalism. In those cases, outsiders can't relate to whatever benefits banning porn may or may not have.

    Other than that, they don't affect me. I see no reason to get angry about it. I'm happy watch Iceland from a distance, guinea pigs for the sake of my own statistical curiosity.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    It could reduce the demand for pornography, which could, in turn, reduce the number of people required to appear in the pornography. Since there is not an insignificant element of involuntary participation in the production of pornography, less human trafficking and exploitation might result.
    How could it reduce the demand? By the same method the War on Drugs has reduced the demand for recreational drugs? Making something like this illegal does not reduce demand. It never has and it never will.

    I'd be all for legalizing and regulating if it greatly reduced exploitation and trafficking, but the results of that strategy in the related industry of prostitution have been disappointing.
    So in your mind the default for prostitution is illegal, and it should only be legal if people can prove that legalization solves the sex trafficking problem?

    Would one small country making a probably minimally successful ban reduce these ills significantly on a global scale? Probably not. But it might make the one small country a little bit better in its attitudes toward and treatment of women and children.
    This is not going to be minimally successful. It's going to be a colossal failure, just like the War on Drugs, just like ban on internet poker. Governments cannot effectively ban these activities unless they take away all of our other freedoms as well (think North Korea).

    Iceland has also banned printed porn, strip clubs, and prostitution. Hmm, I think this is going to blow up in Iceland's face. There is going to be no legal outlet for males who cannot find consensual sex partners. Idiots.

    I love the way they say this is about the kids. Don't blame the parents for bad parenting.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #33
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I think people should at least try, to see what happens. Having enough situations like this, in an otherwise "Western" society with relatively few other taboos, provides good data at least. It's not helpful if it's a culture that bans porn, but also has Sharia law or some other pervasive form of traditionalism. In those cases, outsiders can't relate to whatever benefits banning porn may or may not have.

    Other than that, they don't affect me. I see no reason to get angry about it. I'm happy watch Iceland from a distance, guinea pigs for the sake of my own statistical curiosity.
    The UK is considering following Iceland's lead. Given the way the US government has acted for the last century, I'm sure the US will try it as well. I mean, the online poker ban (done to protect compulsive gamblers from themselves) has been such a huge success...
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #34
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    It's not like the country belongs to a select institutions who have the power to (de)legitimise things like that. The concern is for the civil liberties of people who in fact make up the country.
    This was kind of my point.. I'm American. I don't even think there should be seat belt laws. People should want safety in their lives for their own sake, not because they'll get a ticket and pay a fine if they don't.

    There are a lot of valiant and valid reasons for not supporting the porn industry. But those reasons should be on an intellectual, and individual level (idealistically), not on the backbone of a country. I was merely pointing out that if all of the people in Iceland wanted porn out of their country, it is a legitimate request.. But also, that I don't think it is the people that want it.
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  5. #35
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    How could it reduce the demand? By the same method the War on Drugs has reduced the demand for recreational drugs? Making something like this illegal does not reduce demand. It never has and it never will.


    So in your mind the default for prostitution is illegal, and it should only be legal if people can prove that legalization solves the sex trafficking problem?


    This is not going to be minimally successful. It's going to be a colossal failure, just like the War on Drugs, just like ban on internet poker. Governments cannot effectively ban these activities unless they take away all of our other freedoms as well (think North Korea).

    Iceland has also banned printed porn, strip clubs, and prostitution. Hmm, I think this is going to blow up in Iceland's face. There is going to be no legal outlet for males who cannot find consensual sex partners. Idiots.

    I love the way they say this is about the kids. Don't blame the parents for bad parenting.
    The society in which you parent impacts your kids, no matter how good a parent you are. But that's a debate for a different day, perhaps.

    So you're saying the simple act of outlawing something, all other things being equal and in and of itself, increases demand?

    I think the war on drugs is a failure for many reasons, but I don't think it's only because most recreational drugs are illegal. I think our economic situation, especially the lack of good educational and career opportunities for the poor and minorities has a lot to do with our high demand for recreational drugs. I think that a lot of violence and theft, etc has resulted from forcing drugs into the black market. I think the war on drugs has resulted in a horrible mass imprisonment of young, male minorities that has a negative impact on them for the rest of their lives and is devastating their communities, in large part because the penalties they face for equivalent crimes are unfairly severe compared to those faced by whites.

    I also think there are some people that don't use drugs primarily because they are illegal and they are lawful by nature or simply don't want to risk the consequences of being caught breaking the law.

    Edit: My position on prostitution is that it is, by its nature, exploitive of women and children. To whatever degree it is possible, prostitution and the negative things that go along with it, including but not limited to human trafficking should be addressed and attempts should be made to reduce them with whatever method that is most effective being the preferred method.

    Legalizing and regulating is better than black market, but it would appear not by much. I'm not anything like an expert on the subject, so my information could be inaccurate or out of date, but penalizing the purchasing of sex has shown a little bit of promise.
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  6. #36
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/15/te...and/index.html



    Apparently, they already banned the regular variety (and strip clubs) two years ago.
    Go on the icelandic!

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/15/te...and/index.html



    Apparently, they already banned the regular variety (and strip clubs) two years ago.
    Ban it, and you create a black market for it.

    Once it's ALL illegal and pushed under ground, that makes it much more difficult to really focus on the worst abuses like Child Porn.

    I personally have always found a regulated industry to be safer for society than an unregulated black market.

  8. #38
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Ban it, and you create a black market for it.

    Once it's ALL illegal and pushed under ground, that makes it much more difficult to really focus on the worst abuses like Child Porn.

    I personally have always found a regulated industry to be safer for society than an unregulated black market.
    Even we agree on things sometimes.
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  9. #39
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Even we agree on things sometimes.
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  10. #40
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    This was kind of my point.. I'm American. I don't even think there should be seat belt laws.
    We have been very successful in reducing the road toll with seat belts. And we have been very successful in eliminating gun massacres with gun laws. And we have been very successful in reducing tobacco related deaths with smoking laws.

    And we have done this without any help from Americans - in fact Americans show us what not to do.

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