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Thread: Discrimination

  1. #1
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    Default Discrimination

    Here is my view on the issue of discrimination:

    1. anti-discrimination is discrimination
    2. people are perfectly OK discriminating on some things but not others
    3. since anti-discrimination is discrimination, anti-discrimination is a slippery slope towards the rights of some getting placed above others

    Because of this, I propose a free cultural marketplace. What's that? It is the idea that every trait and behavior of a person that does not harm another should be legal, yet each person should be able to discriminate for themselves as to what they believe is right.


    All drugs, gay marriage, being of a different race..... should be legal. The government should not discriminate against or prevent a person from doing what they want to do to themselves. HOWEVER, people and businesses and social groups (since they are made up of people) should make it their own decision to discern which behavior they will allow for themselves and which ones they will not.

    So, for example, lets look at meth heads. Meth should be legal and people should be free to do it if they please. HOWEVER, employers, churches, landlords, and people in general should be free to discriminate against them as they please. A employer should have full right to say "I will not hire this person simply because they are a meth addict." Same with the landlord and and social institutions... Agreed? Or do meth heads have the fundamental rights to be employed and housed and liked? Which makes more sense?

    Now, the same goes for homosexuals. Employers should have the right to deny them jobs, landlords should have the right to deny them lodging, churches have the right to preach that they are going to hell... and so on, simply because of the fact that they are homosexual.

    And the same goes for people with curly hair, fat people, black people, white people, men, women, old people, and young people.

    Let the individuals decide for themselves what they believe is acceptable behaviors or traits, and what is not. The government should not do this for them, which is what "anti-discrimination" and disallowing drugs and so forth is.

    So what if everybody in a certain society or region refuses to accept meth heads? Well, they either have to move, or find a way to sustain by their own means. And the same with all other groups.

    It is a greater crime to infringe upon the rights of the society and make them accept and employ and shelter a person or group of people who have a trait or behavior which that society deems unacceptable, than it is for the rights for this person or group of people to have their opportunities infringed upon by this society.

    The only way to end ,or at least diminish racism, sexism, and the rest is education and having an enlightened population which realizes that they themselves will not participate in these activities. The government cannot do it for them.
    What do you think?

  2. #2
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
    The only way to end ,or at least diminish racism, sexism, and the rest is education and having an enlightened population which realizes that they themselves will not participate in these activities. The government cannot do it for them.
    What do you think?
    I don't have time for "enlightenment". Punishment and fear for bigotry is far more efficient.

  3. #3
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
    So what if everybody in a certain society or region refuses to accept meth heads? Well, they either have to move, or find a way to sustain by their own means. And the same with all other groups.
    That means of sustaining themselves may be to form homeless gangs who prey on everyone else to get what they need. Of course, the rest of society cannot tolerate that, so they will be arrested and put in jail for theft, vandalism, etc. where their basic needs will be met at society's expense. It is usually cheaper to deal with them earlier in the process, get them off meth, into jobs, etc. Pay now, or pay later. This is the extreme situation, but history has shown that marginalized groups of any stripe who are locked out of a substantial spectrum of what society has to offer can lead to unhealthy divisiveness at best, and violent protest at worst.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
    Here is my view on the issue of discrimination:

    1. anti-discrimination is discrimination
    2. people are perfectly OK discriminating on some things but not others
    3. since anti-discrimination is discrimination, anti-discrimination is a slippery slope towards the rights of some getting placed above others

    Because of this, I propose a free cultural marketplace. What's that? It is the idea that every trait and behavior of a person that does not harm another should be legal, yet each person should be able to discriminate for themselves as to what they believe is right.


    All drugs, gay marriage, being of a different race..... should be legal. The government should not discriminate against or prevent a person from doing what they want to do to themselves. HOWEVER, people and businesses and social groups (since they are made up of people) should make it their own decision to discern which behavior they will allow for themselves and which ones they will not.

    So, for example, lets look at meth heads. Meth should be legal and people should be free to do it if they please. HOWEVER, employers, churches, landlords, and people in general should be free to discriminate against them as they please. A employer should have full right to say "I will not hire this person simply because they are a meth addict." Same with the landlord and and social institutions... Agreed? Or do meth heads have the fundamental rights to be employed and housed and liked? Which makes more sense?

    Now, the same goes for homosexuals. Employers should have the right to deny them jobs, landlords should have the right to deny them lodging, churches have the right to preach that they are going to hell... and so on, simply because of the fact that they are homosexual.

    And the same goes for people with curly hair, fat people, black people, white people, men, women, old people, and young people.

    Let the individuals decide for themselves what they believe is acceptable behaviors or traits, and what is not. The government should not do this for them, which is what "anti-discrimination" and disallowing drugs and so forth is.

    So what if everybody in a certain society or region refuses to accept meth heads? Well, they either have to move, or find a way to sustain by their own means. And the same with all other groups.

    It is a greater crime to infringe upon the rights of the society and make them accept and employ and shelter a person or group of people who have a trait or behavior which that society deems unacceptable, than it is for the rights for this person or group of people to have their opportunities infringed upon by this society.

    The only way to end ,or at least diminish racism, sexism, and the rest is education and having an enlightened population which realizes that they themselves will not participate in these activities. The government cannot do it for them.
    What do you think?
    I think INTPs should be discriminated against.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

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    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    I think INTPs should be discriminated against.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

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    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Isn't the whole point of MBTI to categorize and discriminate?

    People have this negative impression of discrimination, but it is really just a tool for analysis

    Discrimination distinguishes something, nothing more. You could follow this up by mistreating that thing, or you could not

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    I for instance don't think people should be publicly shamed (in the media) for not being pro-gay marriage.

    I think we have a legal obligation to not infringe on the rights of others, but people should have the latitude to espouse whatever opinion they prefer.

  8. #8
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Isn't the whole point of MBTI to categorize and discriminate?

    People have this negative impression of discrimination, but it is really just a tool for analysis

    Discrimination distinguishes something, nothing more. You could follow this up by mistreating that thing, or you could not
    Exactly. Moreover, there are many bases for discrimination, some relevant, others not. If I run a restaurant and want to hire a chef, I will certainly discriminate against people who can't cook well, or even who have a bad track record of reliability on the job. I won't discriminate against latinos or gays or single parents, etc. as these attributes are not relevant to the job. Anti-discrimination laws focus on this type of discrimination: denying someone opportunities based on irrelevant criteria.

    Attempts to wriggle out of obeying such laws often focus on trying to make irrelevant criteria look relevant. The best one can do is cite statistics: e.g. "latinos are overrepresented in the population of workers dismissed from jobs for being unreliable, so I won't hire a latino". An individual is not a statistic, though, and this predicts far less about the performance of an individual in the subject group than does their personal track record.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #9
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    You make some good points about discrimination, everyone does discriminate that is true, although there are forms of discrimination which are unfair and I believe that it is only right to have a legal sanction applied in these instances.

    I dont believe that a marketplace is a solution at all in cultural matters, the very idea disgusts me, culture and the market as I understand it simply dont mix and they are in fact anathema to one another.

    What is fair and unfair and what deserves legal sanction and what does not I believe is something which must be settled through public dialogue and politics, there are many sorts of discrimination which are legally sanctioned which I believe is seriously in error, there are others which I believe its fine to legally sanction, I dont believe that I feel this way because of my identity, group, community, cultural backgroung etc. but because I have reasoned in respect of each instance and reached conclusions instead of applying any blanket generalisations or simplistic and reductive reasoning.

    Being permissive about unfair discrimination is likely to have the same result as being permissive about anything else.

  10. #10
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Uhm. They tried that already. It didn't really work the way people thought it would. (hint: separate but equal) That was just one simple aspect too. Imagine throwing them all in there.

    And what about when you're trying to get your dream job and they just happen to be allowed to legally dislike you regardless of your qualifications? No need to dream about being an astronaut, they only hire Asians and Indians. You might as well start cooking because that's the only work you'll get. Oh, times are tough and your wife wants a job? Sorry pal, women don't work around here. Oh, and.. Nope, you aren't going to that school because they don't like that your parents did meth and you're probably prone to it yourself.

    People who talk like this tend to not have to deal with discrimination.. I'm going to go on a limb here and guess that you're a young white male.

    The whole world goes to shit when you let ignorance flow freely. Opening the flood gates isn't going to make things better.
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