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Thread: Discrimination

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    People who talk like this tend to not have to deal with discrimination.. I'm going to go on a limb here and guess that you're a young white male.
    Young white male libertarian. Get it right Kyuuei

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Exactly. Moreover, there are many bases for discrimination, some relevant, others not. If I run a restaurant and want to hire a chef, I will certainly discriminate against people who can't cook well, or even who have a bad track record of reliability on the job. I won't discriminate against latinos or gays or single parents, etc. as these attributes are not relevant to the job. Anti-discrimination laws focus on this type of discrimination: denying someone opportunities based on irrelevant criteria.

    Attempts to wriggle out of obeying such laws often focus on trying to make irrelevant criteria look relevant. The best one can do is cite statistics: e.g. "latinos are overrepresented in the population of workers dismissed from jobs for being unreliable, so I won't hire a latino". An individual is not a statistic, though, and this predicts far less about the performance of an individual in the subject group than does their personal track record.
    The vast majority of businesses would do exactly what you said, not discriminate based on irrelevant criteria. Why? Because A. they will act in their own best interest and take the best employees whereas irrelevant criteria might cause them to end up with inferior workers, and B, because it would look bad to the public to for businesses to discriminate based on irrelevant criteria which means they would lose businesses. So if firms will do this by themselves, why do we need the government to interfere?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    You make some good points about discrimination, everyone does discriminate that is true, although there are forms of discrimination which are unfair and I believe that it is only right to have a legal sanction applied in these instances.

    I dont believe that a marketplace is a solution at all in cultural matters, the very idea disgusts me, culture and the market as I understand it simply dont mix and they are in fact anathema to one another.

    What is fair and unfair and what deserves legal sanction and what does not I believe is something which must be settled through public dialogue and politics, there are many sorts of discrimination which are legally sanctioned which I believe is seriously in error, there are others which I believe its fine to legally sanction, I dont believe that I feel this way because of my identity, group, community, cultural backgroung etc. but because I have reasoned in respect of each instance and reached conclusions instead of applying any blanket generalisations or simplistic and reductive reasoning.

    Being permissive about unfair discrimination is likely to have the same result as being permissive about anything else.
    What I am saying about the cultural market place is that individuals should be free to choose for themselves which lifestyle they will live. Let them make their own choices about how to maximize their utility (happiness) in life. However, not all lifestyles are acceptable to everyone. So, let's let individuals and the social groups they make decide which lifestyles they will accept and which ones they will reject instead of having the government throw out this big blanket that says these lifestyles will be accepted and these will not.

  3. #13
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Liberatarian and INTP.

    A perfect storm of naivete and ideas that "look good on paper", but woefully fall short of even basic shit to know about reality.

    Never go full retard.

    That isn't to say Libertarian ISTPs are much better (you couldn't trust one of them with their own mothers).

  4. #14
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
    The vast majority of businesses would do exactly what you said, not discriminate based on irrelevant criteria. Why? Because A. they will act in their own best interest and take the best employees whereas irrelevant criteria might cause them to end up with inferior workers, and B, because it would look bad to the public to for businesses to discriminate based on irrelevant criteria which means they would lose businesses. So if firms will do this by themselves, why do we need the government to interfere?
    Because history has shown that firms too often will not do this by themselves. It seems logical in theory, but fails in practice, especially when workers are plentiful and the public denigrates the slighted groups. Businesses usually wave the flag of self-regulation only when threatened with government regulation, but it does not work. This has been true of hiring blacks, Jews, Irish and other immigrants, women, gays, single parents, and many other identifiable groups. The law often has to lead in this respect, until public sentiment and economic realities catch up.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Liberatarian and INTP.

    A perfect storm of naivete and ideas that "look good on paper", but woefully fall short of even basic shit to know about reality.

    Never go full retard.

    That isn't to say Libertarian ISTPs are much better (you couldn't trust one of them with their own mothers).
    The only people who are fully retards and woefully fall short of even basic shit to know about reality are the ones who never question anything and watch the TV for news and believe it. Of course you won't see anything wrong with the current status in affirmative action and anti-discrimination if that describes you because the news didn't tell you there was anything wrong with it.

    Look, all I'm trying to do is offer a solution to a problem. The problem is that there is HUGE disagreement about which behaviors it's ok to discriminate against and which ones are not. Look at gay rights and legalization of marijuana for two examples. The other problem is that anti-discrimination is that it works benificially (sometimes overly) towards the discriminated. The majority must cater to the minority. And there are people that have issues with that.

    If you think the current system we have is better than my solution, then make an argument for it; don't just call me stupid for popping your bubble and thinking of something new.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    The law often has to lead in this respect, until public sentiment and economic realities catch up.
    But what happens then? Should we keep the laws in place after the public sentiment and economic realities catches up?

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