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  1. #1
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Default Obama's white paper on extrajudicial killing

    Here's the paper: http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/se...hite_Paper.pdf

    What do you call a country where an unelected bureaucrat has the ability to order the execution of its citizens? Answer: President Barack Obama’s America.

    That rationale is explained in a 16-page Justice Department “white paper” (.pdf) NBC obtained and published late Monday summarizing the Obama administration’s legal justification of extrajudicial killings of Americans outside the United States. In short,*the administration claims it “is a lawful act of national defense” to kill Americans who pose “an imminent threat of a violent attack against the United States,” according to the undated memo, which could not be independently verified. An “informed, high-level official” is responsible for ordering kills — usually by drones — and that no judicial oversight of the decision is ever allowed.


    But some military scholars suggested the Obama administration’s analysis was legally flawed and is not congressionally authorized, as the administration maintains. And civil rights groups likened the memo to those written under the George W. Bush administration that provided the legal justification for torture — despite the Bush administration never asserting a legal basis for extrajudicial killings of Americans suspected of being terrorists.

    “The parallels to the Bush administration torture memos are chilling. Those were unchecked legal justifications drawn up to justify torture,” said Vincent Warren, the Center for Constitutional Rights’ executive director. “These are unchecked justifications drawn up to justify extrajudicial killing.”
    @KDude See the bold above. The fact that there are unelected beaurocrats who will be implementing makes the legal position even worst.
    Take the weakest thing in you
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  2. #2
    redundant descriptor netzealot's Avatar
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    Extrajudicial is the new scary word of the day.

  3. #3
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    When you pair it with killing it is scary.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  4. #4
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Are you referring to the American citizen he had killed by a drone in the middle East? Violating that person's Constitutional rights, such as; 5th amendment rights to due process (Obama would say judicial vs. due process are distinct), 6th for a trial by jury and 8th for cruel punishment (death sentence for crimes not yet commited) all because the guy was a Muslim cleric/propagandist who supported terrorism? Nevermind the other two American citizens who died in the same vehicle that was blown up, collateral damage. The same person who made the "targeted killing" list. A list all Americans should be afraid of because that list is not subject to "judicial review" nor is the criteria for making the list enumerated so that you can avoid being placed on it in the first place?
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #5
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    Are you referring to the American citizen he had killed by a drone in the middle East? Violating that person's Constitutional rights, such as; 5th amendment rights to due process (Obama would say judicial vs. due process are distinct), 6th for a trial by jury and 8th for cruel punishment (death sentence for crimes not yet commited) all because the guy was a Muslim cleric/propagandist who supported terrorism? Nevermind the other two American citizens who died in the same vehicle that was blown up, collateral damage. The same person who made the "targeted killing" list. A list all Americans should be afraid of because that list is not subject to "judicial review" nor is the criteria for making the list enumerated so that you can avoid being placed on it in the first place?
    The biggest concern is for American Rights, but there are, of course, broader human rights and blowback issues as well.

    But, Press Secretary Carney wants you to not worry and be comforted by the fact that you have a good president and government.

    These strikes are legal, they are ethical and they are wise.* The U.S. government takes great care in deciding to pursue an al Qaeda terrorist, to ensure precision and to avoid loss of innocent life.
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-...ay-carney-2513
    Take the weakest thing in you
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    And always hold on when you get love
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  6. #6
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    If John Stewart, who's more than willing to schill for Obama and the democrats, is raking Obama over the coals on this you know it's indefensible.

    Video: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jon-stewa...-guys-secrets/

    Not, that people won't try to excuse it in their out right refusal to criticize Obama. On Morning Joe yesterday a Democrat coming face to face with his party's inconsistencies responded by saying: "Democrats might need to rethink our criticisms of Bush... maybe Bush wasn't so bad?"
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  7. #7
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    Been following this.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    If John Stewart, who's more than willing to schill for Obama and the democrats, is raking Obama over the coals on this you know it's indefensible.

    Video: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jon-stewa...-guys-secrets/

    Not, that people won't try to excuse it in their out right refusal to criticize Obama. On Morning Joe yesterday a Democrat coming face to face with his party's inconsistencies responded by saying: "Democrats might need to rethink our criticisms of Bush... maybe Bush wasn't so bad?"
    And it was Bush who caused all our problems. But obama's ok because the news doesn't talk as bad about him

  9. #9
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    Text can also be read here. Cool lil' links to the cases and amendments involved.

    Most relevant bits to me were these:
    Were the target of a lethal operation a U.S. citizen who may have rights under the Due Process Clause and the Fourth Amendment, that individual's citizenship would not immunize him from a lethal operation. Under the traditional due process balancing analysis of Mathews v. Eldridge, we recognize that there is no private interest more weighty than a person's interest in his life. But that interest must be balanced against the United States' interest in forestalling the threat of violence and death to other Americans that arises from an individual who is a senior operational leader of al-Q'aida or an associated force of al-Q'aida and who is,engaged in plotting against the United States.
    Section 1119(b) of title 18 provides that a "person who, being a national of the United States or attempts to kill a national of the United States while such national is outside the United States but within the jurisdiction of another country shall be punished as provided under sections 1111,1112, and 1113." 18 U.S.C. § 1119(b) (2006).[3] Because the person who would be the target of the kind of operation discussed here would be a U.S. citizen, it might be suggested that section 1119(b) would prohibit such an operation. Section 1119, however, incorporates the federal murder and manslaughter statutes, and thus its prohibition extends only to "unlawful killing[s],"
    In conclusion, it would be lawful for the United States to conduct a lethal operation outside the United States against a U.S. citizen who is a senior, operational leader of al-Qa'ida or an associated force of al-Qa'ida without violating the Constitution or the federal statutes discussed in this white paper under the following conditions: (1) an informed, high-level official of the U.S. government has determined that the targeted individual poses an imminent threat of violent attack against the United States; (2) capture is infeasible, and the United States continues to monitor whether capture becomes feasible; and (3) the operation is conducted in a manner consistent with the four fundamental principles of the laws of war governing the use of force. As stated earlier, this paper does not attempt to determine the minimum requirements necessary to render such an operation lawful, nor does it assess what might be required to render a lethal operation against a U.S. citizen lawful in other circumstances. It concludes only that the stated conditions would be sufficient to make lawful a lethal operation in a foreign country directed against a U.S. citizen with the characteristics described above.
    also
    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Not, that people won't try to excuse it in their out right refusal to criticize Obama. On Morning Joe yesterday a Democrat coming face to face with his party's inconsistencies responded by saying: "Democrats might need to rethink our criticisms of Bush... maybe Bush wasn't so bad?"
    --wait, what? Now this, I've gotta see.

  10. #10
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    This administration has continued and expanded the appalling record on civil liberties of the Bush admin.

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