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  1. #21
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    That's absolutely my estimation. I would love for the Republican party to go the way of the Whigs, and I'd like them to be replaced by something more meaningful than the Democrats.

    On the specific topic of this thread, I really don't know what reason you'd have to think the Republicans would be better. Some other topics are more complex.
    I think the only difference would have been that the Democrats would have raised all manner of unholy hell if Republicans were doing this. The fact that it's taken Republicans this long to start making real noise about it suggests to me that they weren't sure their base would consider it such a bad thing, at least when it was only being done to foreigners.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  2. #22
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I think the only difference would have been that the Democrats would have raised all manner of unholy hell if Republicans were doing this. The fact that it's taken Republicans this long to start making real noise about it suggests to me that they weren't sure their base would consider it such a bad thing, at least when it was only being done to foreigners.
    Whoever is in office, you can be sure there will be a group of people raising holy hell.

    As far as I am concerned, the last 4 years has been like that. It is just, the people raising those voices has pretty much been shut out. Shit, we talk about cybersecurity and drones, and most people would only know feint things about it, but when we start talking about guns or medicare, people are all over it.

    When Bush was in office, all of those people who protested against the war were shut out as being unpatriotic or something. Most democrats at that time wouldn't say a thing because they wouldn't want to look unpatriotic. Most of the media would not even show people like Shaheen in a favorable light when she protested in front of Bush's ranch. Most of the media showed the war as patriotic, and most Americans took it as patriotic. It only took until a few years before Bush was to leave office when things got so loud.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Here's the paper: http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/se...hite_Paper.pdf


    @KDude See the bold above. The fact that there are unelected beaurocrats who will be implementing makes the legal position even worst.
    I am wondering whether this is a legal or policy kluge in response to the existence of combatants like the "American taliban" during the Iraq war.

    If it is a response to threats posed by rogue elements within the US special forces or intelligence community in an age which could see the first real challenges to the domestic political hegemony of the military-industrial complex since the second world war.

    Either that or preparations for the possibility of American tax exiles sponsoring terrorism within US borders, there's precidents for this during "peace time", back during "the interlude" between the end of the Cold War and beginning of the Bush Co. wars there was a lot of "militia fever" and I'm sure there's Goldfinger style richy richs willing to sponsor random terror if they think it'll mean an ideology is popularised which will translate into a percentage.

  4. #24
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    It's disturbing and disappointing. We continue our aggressive foreign policy and maintan our 9/11 era paranoia guarding against imminent threats in every shadow. It will continue to drain our revenue, destabilizing our diplomatic position, and grant unreasonable powers to defense and intelligence agencies.

    Unfortunately, I can't address the problem by voting for a Republican, can I?

    There are two kinds of problems in America, those that only Democrats will fix and those that no politician will fix. This one is of the latter kind.

    So do you want brown lumps with grey sauce or grey lumps with brown sauce?
    You're dead on about the republican establishment.

    However, your perception that democrats will fix things seems misguided as they obviously have been silent about this issue because they don't want to rock the boat no matter reprehensible the actions of the president.

    You know who will rock the boat?

    Rand Paul.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  5. #25
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I think the only difference would have been that the Democrats would have raised all manner of unholy hell if Republicans were doing this. The fact that it's taken Republicans this long to start making real noise about it suggests to me that they weren't sure their base would consider it such a bad thing, at least when it was only being done to foreigners.
    I actually wasn't as Clued in to the fact that the Republicans have been silent about this issue as they have been as I've been hearing screams from the libertarian and crunchy con wings of the party on this issue day in and day out for months.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  6. #26
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    You know who will rock the boat?

    Rand Paul.
    great. so i'm now going to get randomly assailed again by rabid, white 20 somethings on the street, with the "Answer" to all my problems. This time it's the son, not the dad. I'll be looking forward to it.

  7. #27
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    great. so i'm now going to get randomly assailed again by rabid, white 20 somethings on the street, with the "Answer" to all my problems. This time it's the son, not the dad. I'll be looking forward to it.
    Probably not.

    The craziest portion of the movement hate Rand more than Bernanke, Bush, and Obama combined. They think he's a sellout who is a disgrace to his father.

    And trust me, I hate those guys almost as much as you do... But, then I'm not a libertarian or anarcho capitalist.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  8. #28
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    You're dead on about the republican establishment.

    However, your perception that democrats will fix things seems misguided as they obviously have been silent about this issue because they don't want to rock the boat no matter reprehensible the actions of the president.

    You know who will rock the boat?

    Rand Paul.
    I don't know. Rand Paul's position, when you dig into it, doesn't sound radically different.

    And when it comes to his economic policies, I'd pick any garden variety Democrat any day.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  9. #29
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    12th hour of the filibuster.

    #StandwithRand and related tweets have been trending all day.

    Marco Rubio was just reading totally irrelevant quotes from The God Father, Good Fellas, Wiz Khalifa, and Jay Z.

    Oh, and no response from the senate democrats or Obama. With the exception of Senator Wyden (d) who was helping Rand along with around ten republican Senators.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

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